Weight Integrated safer than weight belt?

[Turtleguy9]

I've seen enough of these poorly designed weight pouches lost that over all I'd have to say that a belt is more reliable and it's easy enough to ditch when there's a need.

Aloha JEH
I WORK ON A DIVE BOAT ALMOST EVERY DAY. I find that most weight belts are lost entering and leaving the water. Most weight puches seem to get snagged loose on the coral, or wrecks, or just drop free, from poor design.
Weight belt for me, for sure.
Turtleguy

 

[Xanthro]

I've found weight belts on the bottom, and I've seen a weight belt slip off someone at the surface, I've yet to see a weight pouch from an intergrated system on the bottom.

I see advantages in both systems, and problems. Trying to remove an intergrated BC underwater wearing a 7mm is hard to say the least, a weight belt would be useful here. Weight belts seem to slip on some new divers when doing the giant stride into the water.

I rarely see newer divers tighten their weight belt as much as I do when I use one. No hips means it better be TIGHT.

Xanthro

 

[Leo Darmitz]

Thank my lucky stars I dove at a time when all of these fancy BC's, etc. were just manufacturer's dreams. A wet suit, personal flotation device and a weight belt was sufficient. BC's were just coming into vogue when I was approaching the end of my active diving and, I have to admit, they were a great improvement over the PFD. However, these new "things" appear to be nothing more than death traps and I have many stories that attest to that. A properly weighted and fitted weight belt with a properly designed buckle does not fail a properly trained diver. As a matter of fact, I have NEVER found a certified instructor that pays much attention to the weight a diver carries or even knows how to properly weight a diver. There may be a few out there, but, most of my students are also in retirment. I have seen the trial an error method which usually has more error in it than safety. I have seen weights designed to be added to or removed from a belt, in the water, without removing the belt. I have seen weights on the straps of tank harnesses. I have even seen divers carrying a pound or two in their hands. BUT, I have never once spoken to a diver that has been able to tell me how to quickly establish a proper weight even though they were all 'Certified'. Some instructors expect the diver to have a Phd in math when they hit them with some rediculous formula that is less likely to weight you properly than make a cup of coffee.

I started diving in the early 1960's and have seen my share of near misses. Other than when I personally had to do an emergency ascent from 85', all other incidents took place at the surface reboarding the boat in heavy seas. If I were wearing one of those monsters with the tank and all the lead in one package, I would surely have never made it to my life of retirement.

When you are at the surface, the only thing that is superfluous is the lead you are carrying; everything else is for your comfort and safety. Getting rid of the weight belt is the only convenient way of taking care of that. In one quick action a belt can be removed and hung on a line or place on a platform. Opening a pouch a pulling out weights would never be considered.

All that said in favour of the weight belt, in 44 years of being involved with diving, I have only ever seen one buckle design that was near fool proof. I have seen every imaginable design made from every imaginable material each of which eventually failed in every imaginable way. Buckles have failed. In addition, belt material does break down. In all of those years, the greatest design that I have seen was one produced by Supreme Divers in Toronto in the early 60's but never seen since. It was a buckle that did not depend on friction or pressure. In a test, it was actually used to connect two belts to tow a car; yet could be released under load with your little finger. It was so simple in design that I never bought one. I made my own. It only took 10 minutes.

The weight pouch is not new to diving either. They were in use in those early years. In all of my years of diving, it was the only weight system that I personnally saw fail the diver. One of my buddies had one that was integrated with his tank harness. It was made by Normalair (excuse the spelling) and was composed of a circular pouch that locked to the cross straps of the tank harness just above the navel. The entire pouch, weights and all, could be disconnected from the harness. Other that its high cost, its weak point was that the pouch had a flap and the closure was a snap dome fastener. My buddy had one and on a vertical descent one day, the snap opened and all of the weighs slid out sending my buddy, feet first, to the surface. Generally speaking, all pouches have flaps with some type of closure. Today, Velco is the most common. If that flap is not closed and secure the inevitable will happen.

Regardless of what I have said and regardless of my experiences, each diver has to be satisfied and feel comfortable with the equipment her or she wears. No one thinks of having an accident underwater or at the surface. It is only after an accident does proper investigation take place. Usually that which was meant to correct one situation will be the cause of another. My philosophy has always been to use the KISS rule; Keep It Simple Stupid. I hope you all make it to retirement.

 

[xfive4x]

The weight pockets on my Aeris BC use a zipper and then a Velcro flap to secure the weight inside the pocket. The pocket is then secured to the BC with a clip and another Velcro flap. They don't pull out easily, but with a well intended tug will come right out. I personally like them, and as I rarely wear a wetsuit I find that if I were to remove my BC underwater without using the integrated weight pockets I am usually struggling to keep it under control as I use aluminum that become positively buoyant in rather short order. To each his own.

 

[Footslogger]

In all of those years, the greatest design that I have seen was one produced by Supreme Divers in Toronto in the early 60's but never seen since. It was a buckle that did not depend on friction or pressure. In a test, it was actually used to connect two belts to tow a car; yet could be released under load with your little finger.
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Can you elaborate on that design a bit ?? I think I might know it. I also go back quite a bit, but not to the 60's. My first diving was done in 1971 and I've been diving ever since with only a weightbelt. The one change I made a few years back was the weight belt with the surrounding pouches that can be loaded with solid or shot weight but still the entire belt can be salvo'd with the flick of a finger.

Anyhew ...I would like to know more about that design you mentioned from Supreme Divers in Toronto.

Thanks in advance,

'Slogger

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Nicer to only have to ditch part of your weights instead of all of them certainly.

Back when even the top of the line BCD's had velcro weight pouches I did lose one while exiting a wreck. At depth that wasn't a problem, it became a problem at the final stop. But hanging upside down on an anchor chain worked fine.

Now they have clips and locks to keep those pouches where they belong.

Some of the shops on Maui will rent you integrated weights. I'd suggest you contact them well in advance to reserve such gear.

 

[Thalassamania]

On the other side of the coin if you get tangled in something and try to remove your tank you may be rocketing to the surface sans gas supply! In the tropics, where I wear a suit without much buoyancy, I rather like the integrated weights but not with a full wet suit or a dry suit.

In 50 years I've never had a buckle failure (I have the good sense to use a positive closing buckle, e.g. wire bail or SeaQuest type), but I've been tangled up in stuff fairly often.

 

[alpaj]

Hmm just thinking about this "it maybe usefull to ditch part of your weight". Please give a situation where dumping only a little bit of your weight is favourable. A positive ascent is a very last last resort and should be avoided at all costs. Thus when one is done the **** must be hitting the fan. Of course the solution should be to avoid the positive ascent in the first place. But if I ever had to do one I'd want to be rid of all my weight. My two canadian cents.

 

[Thalassamania]

does this sound like a valid concern, or more like a pitch to sell equipment?

Gary: Don't always asume that it's a sales pitch. As often as not it (whatever "it" happens to be) is something that a young instructor is told and takes as gospel out of respect for the person who told it to them coupled with a lack of experience to be able to descern the truth. I can remember going into a LDS to order a wet suit (hood attached jacket, farmer john pants, skin 2-side, Rubatex GN-231N) only to be told by the instructor behind the counter that there was not way I could get into the suti without a zipper and that a zipper could not be installed on a skin 2-side suit. Now, at the time, I'd been using a suit like that for years while the LDS instructor had yet to wear his first suit out. I went out the van, got my old suit, demonstrated how it went on and off and discussed the advantages of such a design. He's still wearing that kind of suit today, and no doubt bad mouthing other designs. You can change the suit but not the Instructor<G>.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Hmm just thinking about this "it maybe usefull to ditch part of your weight". Please give a situation where dumping only a little bit of your weight is favourable. A positive ascent is a very last last resort and should be avoided at all costs. Thus when one is done the **** must be hitting the fan. Of course the solution should be to avoid the positive ascent in the first place. But if I ever had to do one I'd want to be rid of all my weight. My two canadian cents.

Don't forget that ascent rates will contribute to DCS. Going up at say 75-100 feet per minute has got to be better than going up at the same rate as a Polaris missle.