What does "intelligence" or "niceness" have to do with it?

[Kim]

In several threads about dolphins and/or whales recently claims are being made that no one should hunt these animals for food because of how intelligent or nice they supposedly are. I don't get it. It seems to me first off rather presumptive, and secondly very morally shaky. Does it mean it's OK to eat stupid animals because they're stupid? Do they feel less fear or less pain because of that? Does intelligence or niceness suddenly confer more right to life?

I can think of several good reasons to stop certain kinds of hunting - endangered species, polluted animals, unwanted products for example - but "niceness"? When you're a seal or a fish being chased and eaten I very much doubt that "nice" crosses your mind. And intelligence? It's a big ocean out there and if animals were really that bright I suspect we'd catch far less of them!

 

[DennisS]

It's the cuddly factor, people will pay to save the panda or manatee but have a hard time getting behind an endangered tree snail. The dolphin always appears to be smiling, I wonder if it would get as much support if it always appeared to be frowning.

 

[bvmjethead]

Kim, I love ya buddy but I see this thread going to where all the others have gone.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Guess it is a moral and emotional issue. I personally feel much less aversion to killing dumb animals. Killing any invertebrate bothers me little except for octopus which are pretty damn smart. I like killing fish somewhat less and really do not engage in the deliberate killing of mamals for fun or sport, primarily because I do feel bad for smarter animals. When I grab a fish and insert a knife into its' brain, I get the strong feeling that it understands that it's death is imminent; the feeling I get from ripping the bodies of live lobster apart is much different.

If you had ever played tag and keep away with a pod of dolphins then maybe you would understand the emotional connection that these animals can evoke in many people.

 

[Kim]

Kim, I love ya buddy but I see this thread going to where all the others have gone.

That depends on how people play.

I can guarantee you one thing though. It won't get closed because the OP requested it because the discussion didn't go the way he intended!

Seriously though. I really don't get it. How people decide which animals it's OK to kill and eat and which aren't seems most odd to me sometimes. I mean have a read of these:
An article on the agressive nature of dolphins
Dolphins: Flipper or Killer?(evidence of infanticide among

Do these sound "nice" to you?

 

[Kim]

Killing any invertebrate bothers me little except for octopus which are pretty damn smart. I like killing fish somewhat less and really do not engage in the deliberate killing of mamals for fun or sport, primarily because I do feel bad for smarter animals.

I don't actually kill anything myself - although I'm perfectly aware that it's being done for me, and have a good idea of what's involved - I've been inside several abattoirs for instance. It's the intelligence/niceness thing I don't get though. I went to school in a big dairy area in the UK and believe me, cows can look pretty cute up close! The same is true for many animals - I personally think that it's life itself that is beautiful to my eyes - just as plants, flowers, trees etc etc can also be beautiful. It's clear to me though - for my own personal standpoint - that there is no true difference (it's the Buddhist thing....) so in the end life is life period, and if I can eat some of it with no qualms, how can I be anti someone else eating something else? It seems weird to me.

 

[fdog]

To quote our tour guide at DiveQuest (Disneyworld) during DEMA:

"You'll notice the dolphins are segregated from the rest of the tank. That's because dolphins are jerks. Actually, teenage hoodlums is more like it".

"One of our biologists came in early in the morning, and caught the two dolphins spinning one of the turtles like a frisbee."

"They'd pick up the fish, flip them up into the air and bat them back and forth".

This was eye-opening, to say the least! They looked like such nice dolphins, too.


All the best, James

 

[Charlie99]

Just what we need. Yet another "wailing" thread.

A land based example of the cuteness factor is squirrels. Squirrels are merely rats with bushy tails and good public relations.

Most people don't seem to have a problem killing and eating land based mammals (other than maybe cute Bambi), but the marine mammals have had better PR agents.

 

[djanni]

Does intelligence or niceness suddenly confer more right to life?

One most levels I think it does.

 

[Tigerman]

One most levels I think it does.

So if I kill a human thats less intelligent than me, its ok..
Sounds.. intelligent..