What is the most logical place to put an Octopus?

[FishWatcher747]

It has been my observation that as a diver's experience grows there is an increased chance that their octopus will become attached to a necklace.

They seem to do so because it is safer and easier.

So why don't we start all divers in initial training with a necklaced octopus?

 

[MyBuddy]

It has been my observation that as a diver's experience grows there is an increased chance that their octopus will become attached to a necklace.

They seem to do so because it is safer and easier.

So why don't we start all divers in initial training with a necklaced octopus?

Open water teaches that if someone is out of gas you donate your octo and your primary stays in your pie hole. Once you move to a necklaced “octo” you’d now be donating the reg that’s in mouth and switching to your necklaced reg. I say not having to switch regs is definitely safer for inexperienced divers and those that haven’t practiced it extensively. You also don’t want to train new divers if they’re out of gas, to grab the reg out of someone’s mouth but instead go for the bright yellow reg/hose in the “triangle.”

The necklaced reg is a staple in tech diving (backmount, sidemount, CCR*, and carrying pony**, where the secondary reg is for YOU to quickly access your redundant gas supply. Whether that is because the reg you’re currently using has failed or if you’re donating your primary to an out of gas diver. In these configurations (except CCR and half the time on side
mount) you’d do primary donation of the longer hosed reg to someone who’s out of gas.

If you’re diving a single gas source I think it makes better sense to donate an alternate reg and keep breathing from your primary. Once you have a redundant gas source the additional risk of swapping regs is outweighed by the benefit of having a redundant supply of gas. That being said for sake of consistency all of my reg configurations are primary donate with the redundant gas reg necklaced. In the rare occasion that I just have single tank with no redundant gas, my alternate is an integrated SS1.

*Many leave the bailout reg stowed on the bottle but I like having quick easy access to the reg which doesn’t have to be re-stowed if going back to the loop.

**Carrying a pony is NOT tech diving but redundant gas is a step in that direction and having the pony’s reg necklaced reduces some of the dangers of breathing the wrong reg. If I’m diving a pony I only have one second stage on my back gas. I also have an integrated inflator/reg because that was my first reg setup and I already have it so why not use it.

 

[Kimela]

I read the question and couldn't help myself ... put the octopus back in the water!!! LOLOLOL!! (I guess I'm old enough that I now do
'dad jokes' even though I'm a woman).

 

[VikingDives]

It has been my observation that as a diver's experience grows there is an increased chance that their octopus will become attached to a necklace.

They seem to do so because it is safer and easier.

So why don't we start all divers in initial training with a necklaced octopus?

I teach OW with students in a long hose config. . . It takes longer to teach with a LH - students have to put equipment on in a specific order and do at least a modified s-drill at the surface each time they get geared up... They need to learn what a short hose config looks like and how to donate and receive gas in that config too, since they will likely encounter that config on travel etc.

I also guess that most people teach the way they've been taught.

If you're running a puppy mill, it's all about getting students out the door with the least resistance.

 

[MyBuddy]

I read the question and couldn't help myself ... put the octopus back in the water!!! LOLOLOL!! (I guess I'm old enough that I now do
'dad jokes' even though I'm a woman).

I almost replied with my first thought which was under some coral or in a shell.

 

[boulderjohn]

Open water teaches that if someone is out of gas you donate your octo and your primary stays in your pie hole.

I don't know any agency that has such a rule. They may exist, but I don't know of any.

I was a PADI instructor, and they have no such rule. Any of the common procedures is acceptable. I used to go over all the possible choices with the students and then use in class the rental gear they used for the class.

I believe that as an agency, SSI is currently teaching that the donor should donate the primary and switch to the alternate.

 

[boulderjohn]

I can understand why an OW instructor would have students learn and practice using the conventional rig, mostly because that is what they are likely to rent before they buy their own. I myself think the necklace system is the best. It is very much the fastest. With a little practice, the donor can have the regulator out and heading for the OOA dive in about a second after seeing the OOA signal. It is also the most reliable. As an instructor, one of the biggest problems I faced teaching with the conventional setup was the number of times the students' alternates had come out of their holders and were not easily available. I learned to make sure all alternates were actually in places and ready to go before I started an OOA drill.

When I first started tech training years ago, I used the necklace for tech but did not bother switching to it for my NDL diving. That changed after I read about a woman who drowned after going OOA. She went to her buddy for his alternate, but it had come loose from its holder and was stuck somewhere behind him. She panicked when they couldn't find it.

 

[MyBuddy]

I don't know any agency that has such a rule. They may exist, but I don't know of any.

I was a PADI instructor, and they have no such rule. Any of the common procedures is acceptable. I used to go over all the possible choices with the students and then use in class the rental gear they used for the class.

I believe that as an agency, SSI is currently teaching that the donor should donate the primary and switch to the alternate.

I thought I had sufficiently couched my post. But this is the internet.
I didn’t intend to imply that alternate donate was a hard and fast rule amongst the agencies. Though it would be amusing to see an agency include the phrase “pie hole” in their course literature. I suppose I should have said the majority of OW students are taught that if someone is out of gas you donate your octo….

Clearly from the rest of my post, I don’t subscribe to the thought that’s it’s the only way to dive. But for the people that are just going to rent gear when they go to the quarry or dive on holiday, the primary and Octo setup is what they’re likely to find and that’s what they’re likely to be taught.

Edit…

One of the biggest problems… with the conventional setup was the number of times … alternates had come out of their holders and were not easily available.

There’s a ton of options for securing octos some being more reliable than others. Definitely a plus in the necklace column. IF I ever went the independent instructor route, it would be something I’d have to give a lot of consideration.

 

[JohnN]

I can understand why an OW instructor would have students learn and practice using the conventional rig, mostly because that is what they are likely to rent before they buy their own. I myself think the necklace system is the best. It is very much the fastest. With a little practice, the donor can have the regulator out and heading for the OOA dive in about a second after seeing the OOA signal. It is also the most reliable. As an instructor, one of the biggest problems I faced teaching with the conventional setup was the number of times the students' alternates had come out of their holders and were not easily available. I learned to make sure all alternates were actually in places and ready to go before I started an OOA drill.

When I first started tech training years ago, I used the necklace for tech but did not bother switching to it for my NDL diving. That changed after I read about a woman who drowned after going OOA. She went to her buddy for his alternate, but it had come loose from its holder and was stuck somewhere behind him. She panicked when they couldn't find it.

This, plus you don’t need that silly arm sweep to find the alternate reg that has become detached

 

[Kendall Raine]

The issue you're getting at is not so much that of a "necklaced octopus" per se as it is the philosophy/technique of which reg to donate to an OOG diver.

I think divers should be taught to donate from the mouth (and applaud instructors like @VikingDives who do-and the philosophy behind it) and have their second on a bungee-in tight and out of the mud/sand/crap. The reasons are compelling and the downsides/arguments against are shrouded in red herrings (see red herrings below, particularly point 3), wives tales and village superstition/old habits.

What follows is copied from another post about long primary hoses/donating from the mouth in recreational/non-overhead, but it applies here.

I donate from the mouth with the primary on a 7' hose. I use a 7' hose in all backmount configurations-single or double. The reasons to donate the long hose from the mouth (v. the "octopus") are: 1) passing off a reg I know is working correctly to the OOG diver (instead of a "octopus" that may be clogged with crap or otherwise stopped working properly since I last checked it-exposed to possible damage/out of sight out of mind during the dive). This is critical in an OOG situation because the OOG diver may be on their last ounce of sefl-control and a wet breathing/non-functioning "octopus" may be the last straw, 2) passing off a reg I can find instantly (instead of trying to locate it by feel when stowed someplace on my chest), 3) passing a reg at arms length which means it's closer to the OOG diver, and (this is important) 4) I keep the OOG diver at arms length where I can better see them/communicate with them, 5) the 7' hose also means we can swim together more comfortably than a short hose (not just an overhead thing but also very important in high boat traffic areas like Cozumel where you want to swim into the reef area-away from boat traffic-before ascending), and 6) the greater distance between donor and OOG diver on the long hose means the donor has hands free and space to deploy an SMB without added risk of entanglement-himself or the OOG diver.

Also, using a 7' hose means I can wear it tight (no extra slack behind the neck or over the right shoulder) and not have a longer hose flapping in the breeze. Not having slack is a safety advantage in overhead. Extra 7' hose length is either tucked in the waist strap or around the canister if wearing a corded light. Anything shorter and you lose the ability to stow slack. The back up is then necklaced on a short hose (20-22")-in tight, protected and out of the way.

In terms of the downsides to having a 7' hose/donating from the mouth, I'd like to address a couple of red herrings/myths:

1) Getting strangled by the long hose by the OOG diver who approaches from the left and tugs on the long hose: the long hose is routed behind the neck, not around it. Pulling from the left (e.g. 8-9 o'clock position) could theoretically be a surprise but it's very easy for the donor to slip the hose over top of the head and release tension on the hose. Anyone afraid of getting strangled hasn't tried this in real life. Besides, an attentive buddy (we are a situationally aware buddy, right??) is not very likely to get "surprised" because they should be aware of their buddy's gas supply/equipment problems before getting sneaked up on. Lastly on this non-issue, if an OOG diver does somehow manage to sneak up on you from 8-9 o'clock, how is a short hose (or, God forbid, right side stowed octopus) going to be any better solution?

2) The long hose creates problems when handing the tank up to the boat or flops around once on the boat. Another technique solved non-issue. The long hose should be coiled and clipped off on the right shoulder d ring before getting out of the rig. Easy, nice and neat.

3) Donating the long hose from the mouth is not the way most divers are taught and therefore unfamiliar to most divers. That is true. So what? An OOG diver has one thought-get gas. The first/easiest place to look for gas is in the donor's mouth. If the donor is aware, it doesn't matter what the OOG diver was taught. The OOG diver is not going to bypass a functioning reg shoved in their face in lieu of searching in the "triangle" for an octopus. If the donor is not aware and gets surprised, the OOG is still far more likely to go for a reg the donor is breathing from than fumbling around on the donors chest. If the donor is trained to donate from the mouth getting surprised like this will be less disorienting/threatening/scary than if they're not accounstomed to donating from the mouth-going to the bungeed back-up will be automatic/muscle memory.

Breathing/donating the long hose came out of the cave diving community, true, but it's applicability/advantages for all types of diving are intuitive and just a matter of technique.