What kind of and why do agencies put requirements on shops?

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FM1520

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Location
Fallbrook, CA
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I just don't log dives
Based on a thread about shops not reusing mouthpieces, I asked why would SSI or any agency would care how a shop maintained its gear beyond the basics (qualified techs)?


I can understand agencies like SSI and others wanting the shops they are affiliated with to conform to certain standards like cleanliness, number of classes, numbers of instructors, training standards...
but requiring a shop to not to rent regs with mouthpieces and have the customer/student purchase one seems counter to good customer relations and a little over the top.
 
I did not see where the agency required the shop to do that. If it is a new agency policy they should be crucified for their unmitigated greed. And if it's not and the shop says it is you have to ask what else are they lying about?
 
I don't think it's a requirement however agencies like SSI and PADI teach that in order to survive (and expand) in 'the industry', one needs to sell equipment. This is one of those ways.

Selling individual mouthpieces works by promoting fear of disease. Other companies use the same 'fear' to promote the overuse of cleaning products, telling the worried parent to disinfect everything or you're baby is gonna die.
 
Jim, I can't believe that you haven't been exposed to "The Business of Diving", but then, you are YMCA/SEI, which, although in the diving business, is focused on diving, not on business.

First of all, who thinks that agencies are in it for the divers? No hands up? Good, because agencies are in it for agencies. This is business, and, although on the grand scale of things it isn't even a fart in a hurricane, it's bigger than any other diving business. How many big liveaboard fleets are owned by holding or investment companies like PADI is?

So lets look at some of the requirements agencies put on their shops. I am most familiar with PADI, and SDI/TDI, and only peripherally familiar with SSI, so if I say a stupid thing about SSI, please correct me. First of all, the shop must be a member. Used to be I could see the prices for dive center membership, 5 star membership, etc. on my quarterly price list, but it isn't available to those who aren't paying the membership fees anymore. Then, you have to have insurance. Now, you'd have to have business insurance, and contents insurance, and woe be unto you if you have a pool, but the training agencies and insurance companies have bundled all that together in one easy low price, so if you're going to be just a dive shop, you can have normal business insurance issued by your independent broker down the street, but if you're going to be an agency approved dive shop, you gotta have the agency approved insurance. Many dive boats have a general hull and P&I insurance. For my boat, it would run about 5 grand per year. For SDI/TDI approved Dive Boat insurance with in-water liability and all the bells and whistles, I spring for over $35k. $5k vs. $35k. But, I'm approved by my affiliated agency. Now, lets talk about the littler things, like your staff having in-water liability. Look at the direction lawsuits have taken in the past 10 years. It isn't enough to sue the boat when your poor spouse dies on a dive trip, you have to sue the boat, the DM on the deck, the shop that chartered, the instructor that certified poor Bubba, the manufacturer who made his BCD, and the training agency that specified the training. If you don't believe that, look up DeWolf vs. Kohler, which Kohler et. al. won last week. Defense ran in the hundreds of thousands. All of this insurance is not to protect the instructor or shop owner's assets, they own and work in dive shops, they have no assets. Nope, if they can't get money from a stone, they will go as far back as they need to to get it, and that may be as far back as the agency. You buy all of that expensive insurance to protect the agency, not to protect yourself.

Air tests? Of course, every responsible shop does air tests. Well, except that shop in St. Lucia that asked me for help one day. See, they didn't know that they had to change their filters, so they didn't. For more than 8 years that we knew of. Never needed an air test, as it turns out, either. This is a requirement that affiliated shops put on their members, a good one, IMHO.

PADI and SSI teach a business of diving class. PADI has it available online for download, and in person. SSI has a dealer conference in Colorado every August, I think. One of the things that comes from that dealer conference in Colorado is how to sell scuba gear, because Doug McNeese thinks dive shops are in the business to sell scuba gear. If you were around back then, where did you think that buying the required basic equipment rule came from? Doug preached that every diver needed to own basic gear (rightly so). This gets the divers wallet open and teaches him that scuba is expensive right from the start. Don't even think of bringing in Uncle Wally's old turtle fins, nope, we gotta have you in a new set of Slingshots. Mares 6 window masks for $245? Step right up, got 'em in black and blue. Some of you who got certified 20 or more years ago remember a big bucket of masks and snorkels by the side of the pool. Nay Nay Moosebreath, those days are gone. Mask doesn't fit right? Buy another. Doug (or his folks) also came up with the every diver should have their own mouthpiece strategy, because they knew that every diver should own their own regulator would never fly, especially for open water.

Now, the buy new basic gear for OW class is not a rule, neither is the every diver owns a mouthpiece strategy. They are marketing tools to perform a number of things. First of all, I used to be closely associated with Sea Sports, my wife worked for Doug and Judith, and they were good clients and friends when we were in Texas. I can't tell you how many times rental regulators showed up on the boat with ripped bites or a hole under the tie wrap. Making each rental go out with a new mouthpiece remedies that issue. 2 mouthpieces is even better. So while the basic gear and mouthpieces isn't an agency requirement per se, it is a marketing strategy to sell mouthpieces. And it isn't wrong, or immoral, or "unmitigated greed". It's shifting the financial burden of maintenance to the diver. It's also making sure that the diver doesn't have a pinhole in the side of the mouthpiece or the bite guard ripped off when they get to the boat. Should the shop make sure of that? Maybe. Should the airlines carry 2 bags free? yes. Should the airport security agents grope your manliness? Absolutely. YMMV.
 
I saw the mouthpiece thread and thought that the requirement was a bit odd, but then as Wookie describes it as a shift in maintenance cost, I can "almost" see their point.

With all of the threads I've seen on shop practices, and some of the horror stories, I'm glad to know that my LDS is one of the better ones. They may not carry every brand, and you may have to wait for things sometimes, but I always feel welcomed and I've always been treated VERY fair. That's why I don't mind paying a bit more than the online prices, because I know if I don't support my LDS, then some day, they may not be there at all.
 
Just how many mouthpieces will you have to sell to make it worth the effort? I make a few pennies on each one but I'd have to be selling them by the bucket-load to actually make it worth my while just making up orders for them.
 
Just how many mouthpieces will you have to sell to make it worth the effort? I make a few pennies on each one but I'd have to be selling them by the bucket-load to actually make it worth my while just making up orders for them.

Are you saying that you sell small items like that at less than 100% markup???
 
Just how many mouthpieces will you have to sell to make it worth the effort? I make a few pennies on each one but I'd have to be selling them by the bucket-load to actually make it worth my while just making up orders for them.

This dive shop certifies well over a thousand divers per year. They probably rent 3-4000 regulators per year. Markup on a mouthpiece is what, 3 bucks? I'd do something for $9-12k per year. It's more than that, though. It's $9-12k of new mouthpiece sales, it's $3k of transferred maintenance, it's getting divers in the door to buy a mouthpiece, and they get reminded to buy defog, swim-ear, a gauge retractor, and some "dive lip balm with SPF 42", for a total price of $89.47, when all the student really wanted to do was pick up his rental gear. What, you aren't a PADI shop? :D
 
Hmm, that's a lot of turnover! I suppose they can afford to lose the odd customer who thinks that might be a little too grasping.
 
Hmm, that's a lot of turnover! I suppose they can afford to lose the odd customer who thinks that might be a little too grasping.

I don't speak for that particular shop, but my biggest frustration is the American model dive shop that certifies a diver, sells them an OW class and a set of dive gear, and then forgets all about them. 'Nuff said about that in this thread.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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