What makes a Diver?

[imasinker]

Recently I have had this discussion with many divers experienced and some not so experienced. So I am looking here to see what other divers think about this subject.
I was certified last May and have logged 40 dives not including my open water. Of that 40 dives 16 were wreck dives deepest being 111 feet and yes I am now certified advanced. I chose to take time in between basic diver and advanced to learn my skills better and prepare myself to become a better diver. Now I don't consider myself an experienced diver, but I would say I am a safe and confident diver. NOW with saying that heres a take I think worth discusing. I have seen people take the open water diver course, the following week take the advanced course then head off to do deep dives and charters with only 8 dives under their belt being class dives open water, thinking they are qualified and experienced. So now your on a charter and you look at someone you don't know and they say " oh ya I am an advanced diver. To me diver trainning that being Padi or any other organization can differ from instructor to instructor. I will say those I learned from were amazing and very well respected as instructors. Just because you hold a certificate saying your advanced or rescue trained doesn't mean your an experienced diver and sadly sometimes not all that qualified. Diving and continuing to dive and train is what i think makes an experienced diver. Am I wrong with this opinion? I see this as a problem at times with divers who immediatly go out to dive places they are unfamiliar with and havent dove much at all,thats when accidents happen. We all were once, and i still am a new diver. Some of us take to diving like fish to water, pardon the pun while others are far from ready and I have seen this too many times in my short time as a diver. Thats what scares me. It just bothers me to hear someone say " I have my advanced diver certy I know what I am doing" Diving and continuing to dive makes you a diver right? what do you think?

I am not or do not want to offend anyone by this post, please do not feel this as a rant or attack, but more of a concern.

Rob

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I had a few hundred dives before taking my advance class. I still didn't consider myself to be an advanced diver because nearly all my dives had been in similar conditions and depths. It wasn't until I began training for deep wreck dives that I began to feel more advanced. I don't think of another diver as being advanced until they pass rescue course at a minimum.

 

[Riger]

Qualifications may give you knowledge and skills, attitude and experience(s) will make you dive-wise.

Experience can only be gained by expanding your boundaries.

I am not sure what message you are trying to get across, different strokes for different folks is my answer.

Best Regards
Richard

 

[don Francisco]

What makes a diver? Negative bouyancy, otherwise he's a swimmer.

Seriously, your points are well taken. Diving like any skill requires both knowledge and experience. Either one alone isn't enough.

Compare it to driving. Getting a license only proves that you've passed a written test showing you know some of the laws and rules of the road, and that you've demonstrated a minimum level of skill so as not to be an unreasonable hazard to yourself or others. That doesn't mean I'd want you as a school bus drivers with my kids on board.

Also, in driving, experience alone, measured in hours or years behind the wheel, isn't in and of itself a solid indicator. Have you driven in snow, heavy rain or fog, off road, in heavy traffic or in the various cities in the US where habits are very different. Moreover you could be Mario Andretti, but if you don't know and respect local rules of the road, you're a accident waiting to happen.

From knowledge and broad experience together we get judgement. The ability to make and execute smart decisions as situations arise. Ultimately it's the quality of those decisions that separate real divers from those who swim underwater from time to time.

 

[ucfdiver]

This has become the issue with watered down content within the scuba training circle. Most every diver "aces" AOW, and now feels that makes them a very advanced diver. I've stated on here multiple times that AOW should be renamed to something else, maybe even as simple as open water 2. People do not understand that what it means, is you have advanced past the open water level, not that you're an advanced diver.

I think this mentality is one that can be dangerous, if a student pushes the limits because they believe themselves to now be an advanced diver.

The other issue I see here is that, people hate it when you standardize diving, yet complain about others around them having bad instruction, leaving the agencies in a catch 22....if they start checking up on instructors they're seen as big brother, if they don't, instructors abuse the system, provide quick courses (that sometimes don't meet standards), and cut cards. I've been in a class where my instructor was a former board member broke course standards. The problem goes back to the question "What do you do about it?", and it results in a catch 22.

And I'm not picking on one agency. My opinion about SOME standardization or instructor random checkups spans from PADI/NAUI to GUE/NACD. Someone suggested on another forum that cave diving instructors should have yearly or biannual checkups, and that started a TON of controversy. Why are instructors worried about being checked up on? Saying it concerns me would be putting it lightly.

Here's what you have to realize. Some instructors don't keep up their own skill set, be it diving skills or teaching skills. Have you ever had a job that you were excited about for a year, enjoyed, and then it got boring, so you put less effort to it, but hung around for the money? Don't fool yourself into thinking it doesn't happen.

I truly believe that a student given an AOW card by an instructor who cares means a LOT more than one given by an instructor who's bored of teaching. Just because two people have the same C cards, does NOT mean the two divers have equal skills or have received equal training.

 

[DennisS]

OW+Advanced+Rescue=Basic Dive Skills

 

[TSandM]

It's hard to know what you don't know, and I think if your early dives go well, it's VERY easy to relax and begin to think that you've got this diving thing nailed. It isn't until you have a couple of bad experiences that you realize the water is MUCH bigger than you are, and deserves unfailing respect.

 

[ucfdiver]

It's hard to know what you don't know, and I think if your early dives go well, it's VERY easy to relax and begin to think that you've got this diving thing nailed. It isn't until you have a couple of bad experiences that you realize the water is MUCH bigger than you are, and deserves unfailing respect.

Excellent point.

A recent thread was talking about wearing certain colors so you don't lose your buddy. How many divers do you think would be far enough apart to need that, after let's say going OOA at 80ft, or getting tangled in kelp?

Modern scuba gear is so reliable that it makes up for tons of poor decisions. Most divers never experience an emergency, and if they gain too much confidence and start diving outside their ability level because of this, it creates a serious danger when even a minor problem does occur.

BTW- Notice I said ability level and not training level. Just because a C card says you can go to 100 or 130ft, does not mean your skill level is good enough to be doing the dive.

 

[gcbryan]

Personally, I've never heard anyone come out of an AOW class and tell another diver that they are now an advanced diver. How could one come out of that class and after 4 dives following their instructor around suddenly feel "advanced". Is this really a problem?

 

[robertarak]

Personally, I've never heard anyone come out of an AOW class and tell another diver that they are now an advanced diver. How could one come out of that class and after 4 dives following their instructor around suddenly feel "advanced". Is this really a problem?

Oh, I have! Many, many times. I know people who take AOW for the cert. So they can say they are an "Advanced" diver.

There is a fine line between enough training to be safe and too much training to make it out of reach for the average joe. I understand why the training for the major agencies has been watered down and shortened. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. The biggest mistake was calling the next class after Open Water, "Advanced". Far better to have, Open Water 1, Open Water 2, Rescue, etc.

It's the term "advanced" that gets some worked up, and gets others over confident...IMHO.