What makes a Diver?

[FishOutUvH2O]

This is my first post, so a big hello to everyone. I'm an almost diver (meaning I've almost finished the OW course) and have mostly just been using the search feature on the board and absorbing info, but this thread made me chuckle at first and then when I realized the implications of someone saying they're an "advanced" diver based solely on the fact that they took the AOW course, it scared the hell out of me. This is because it's my understanding that the OW course is an entry level course. So by extension the AOW is simply an advanced entry level course. The key words there are entry level. Now I can guarantee you that when I go on my first non-course dive (my wife and I are planning a trip to Cozumel in late September) that the first words out of my mouth after Hello, to both the charter folks and the other guests are going to be "I'm a new and inexperienced diver, so please don't be afraid to help me and my wife out." Now my fear is that if for some reason I'm not with my normal dive buddy, aka my wife, and I get buddied-up with someone else, I don't want to have to find out the hard way that this person told me that they were an "advanced" diver based solely on their AOW certification and not a crap load (however much that is) of dive experience.

So a big THANK YOU to the OP for letting me know to ask a little deeper about experience.

 

[Riger]

.... my fear is that if for some reason I'm not with my normal dive buddy, aka my wife, and I get buddied-up with someone else, I don't want to have to find out the hard way that this person told me that they were an "advanced" diver based solely on their AOW certification and not a crap load (however much that is) of dive experience....

In this case, declare your number of dives and ask how many dives your new buddy has (even though this is not always the best yardstick). Ask them to tell you about their diving experience and tell them that you are inexperienced and appreciate their "guidance" (if you think they can provide it).

It is not an easy call to make, but you have to be comfortable with your buddy otherwise you will not enjoy the dive(s).

The pre-dive brief could not be more important than in these circumstances. Brief everything from signals for amount of air, turning/ascend air limits max depth etc.....

You know the basics already, just apply them and remember that you decide where/what/how within your own limits.

If you are diving with a group under the guidance of a Dive Master, tell them, they will normally buddy you with a suitable buddy.

Don't forget to Enjoy it ..... oh and BREATHE !!

Regards
Richard

 

[tfsails]

Here's an old adage that's been modified to fit the activity in question. While it tends to be humorous, it also says quite a lot:

"The superior diver uses his superior judgment to avoid having to use his superior diving skills."

If you think about it, this statement has some deep (pun not intended) meaning to it.

To me, attitude makes the diver.

 

[scubadobadoo]

Money. If you don't have it you don't dive therefore you aren't a diver. So yeah, I would say money. Oh, and water. Oh crap, I forgot air too. And wait, fish, yeah I would say fish. And....huh.....oh yeah! FINS! I forgot fins!!!!! Oh CRUD WAIT!!!!!! A mask and a tank too!!!!!!!!!! And.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................who who gives a crap. It can only be quantified individually so just go dive and enjoy it.

 

[emttim]

I had a few hundred dives before taking my advance class. I still didn't consider myself to be an advanced diver because nearly all my dives had been in similar conditions and depths. It wasn't until I began training for deep wreck dives that I began to feel more advanced. I don't think of another diver as being advanced until they pass rescue course at a minimum.

I second this...an advanced diver should know rescue skills, ergo, needs to be a rescue diver first.

Recently I have had this discussion with many divers experienced and some not so experienced. So I am looking here to see what other divers think about this subject.
I was certified last May and have logged 40 dives not including my open water. Of that 40 dives 16 were wreck dives deepest being 111 feet and yes I am now certified advanced. I chose to take time in between basic diver and advanced to learn my skills better and prepare myself to become a better diver. Now I don't consider myself an experienced diver, but I would say I am a safe and confident diver. NOW with saying that heres a take I think worth discusing. I have seen people take the open water diver course, the following week take the advanced course then head off to do deep dives and charters with only 8 dives under their belt being class dives open water, thinking they are qualified and experienced. So now your on a charter and you look at someone you don't know and they say " oh ya I am an advanced diver. To me diver trainning that being Padi or any other organization can differ from instructor to instructor. I will say those I learned from were amazing and very well respected as instructors. Just because you hold a certificate saying your advanced or rescue trained doesn't mean your an experienced diver and sadly sometimes not all that qualified. Diving and continuing to dive and train is what i think makes an experienced diver. Am I wrong with this opinion? I see this as a problem at times with divers who immediatly go out to dive places they are unfamiliar with and havent dove much at all,thats when accidents happen. We all were once, and i still am a new diver. Some of us take to diving like fish to water, pardon the pun while others are far from ready and I have seen this too many times in my short time as a diver. Thats what scares me. It just bothers me to hear someone say " I have my advanced diver certy I know what I am doing" Diving and continuing to dive makes you a diver right? what do you think?

I am not or do not want to offend anyone by this post, please do not feel this as a rant or attack, but more of a concern.

Rob

Well, your concern is well thought. I thought I was an advanced diver when I got the AOW cert back in April...eh, for a lot of people, Rescue is a big wake up call. At 41 dives, solid buoyancy control, great air consumption and a Rescue cert, I'm just now beginning to feel like an advanced diver.

Oh, I have! Many, many times. I know people who take AOW for the cert. So they can say they are an "Advanced" diver.

There is a fine line between enough training to be safe and too much training to make it out of reach for the average joe. I understand why the training for the major agencies has been watered down and shortened. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. The biggest mistake was calling the next class after Open Water, "Advanced". Far better to have, Open Water 1, Open Water 2, Rescue, etc.

It's the term "advanced" that gets some worked up, and gets others over confident...IMHO.

Well, I thought they called it Adventure Diver for awhile? Open Water Diver, Adventure Diver and then Rescue Diver would be fine. There's no need for a cert called Advanced since it's a pretty subjective label to begin with as far as diving is concerned.

 

[Sas]

Well, your concern is well thought. I thought I was an advanced diver when I got the AOW cert back in April...eh, for a lot of people, Rescue is a big wake up call. At 41 dives, solid buoyancy control, great air consumption and a Rescue cert, I'm just now beginning to feel like an advanced diver.

41 dives and an advanced diver? Really? In my opinion (and I don't mean to be harsh), your diving skills might be good but your experience is lacking considerably. I believeI have grasped the skills you mentioned but I have far less experience than what I would consider an advanced diver to have. Going off your logbook, your deepest dive is 18m, so you haven't had to do a heap (if any?) planning with redundant air or dealt with the effects of narcosis, for example. Have you been in an OOA situation with you or a buddy? Have you been entangled? Equipment failure? Anything else gone majorly wrong on a dive? How one deals with those kinds of situations is a bit part of what makes someone an advanced diver (avoiding them is part of it too I admit but things can go wrong that you are not at fault for), not having good skills in buoyancy and having low air consumption.

To be honest, if someone on a boat was buddied with me and claimed they were an advanced diver because of what you listed, I would consider them to have a bad attitude (overconfidence) and I would find a new buddy. That might be being overcautious, but diving with a dodgy buddy is very risky and I have found attitude is the big determiner of how good a buddy someone makes.

 

[ScubaSarus]

Dive Training magazine put in nicely. A good diver is one who can think clearly and totally be aware of the surroundings.

 

[Theunis]

41 dives and an advanced diver? Really? In my opinion (and I don't mean to be harsh), your diving skills might be good but your experience is lacking considerably. I believeI have grasped the skills you mentioned but I have far less experience than what I would consider an advanced diver to have. Going off your logbook, your deepest dive is 18m, so you haven't had to do a heap (if any?) planning with redundant air or dealt with the effects of narcosis, for example. Have you been in an OOA situation with you or a buddy? Have you been entangled? Equipment failure? Anything else gone majorly wrong on a dive? How one deals with those kinds of situations is a bit part of what makes someone an advanced diver (avoiding them is part of it too I admit but things can go wrong that you are not at fault for), not having good skills in buoyancy and having low air consumption.

I agree with you on this!!