What makes a Diver?

[TishaDee]

I have met extremely capable and experienced divers (300+ dives with over 7 years experience) who only possessed an OW cert and I've seen bumbling idots who I wonder how they ever made it through their OW let alone other classes tote AOW, Resuce and even Master Diver certs. I think we've all established that a cert card isn't what makes a good diver.

But I would like to point out that some shops/instructors have standards of their own that go above and beyond their agency requirements to discourage "card collecting" and encourage real life experience. For example my NAUI shop won't let you enroll in the AOW class until you have at least 25 logged dives under your belt and even though 25 dives isn't a lot, it's enough to establish some proficiency and comfort in the water.

While some might argue that it's wrong to delay training for someone if they want it and are willing to pay for it, I personally like my NAUI shops approach. I don't see anything wrong with asking someone to go out in the world and get a little experience and proficiency with what's already been learned before moving on to more advanced training.

But that's just my two cents!

We'll never have a perfect world and there will never be a day when the whole world lives up to our standards. So we must let go and let live. The only people's abilities we need worry about is our own and our buddies.

 

[TishaDee]

Have you ever had a job that you were excited about for a year, enjoyed, and then it got boring, so you put less effort to it, but hung around for the money?

No one teaches scuba for the money...it's the discounts duh!! :mooner:

 

[InTheDrink]

TO backup what RJP has stated, I'll give my $0.02.

ANY diver who wants to improve his or her skill sets, and really learn skills that will increase your enjoyment in diving should watch these dvds.
Unified Team Diving (UTD) International (408) 674-9564

The "Intro to Tech" and "Essentials" I recommend 100%. While they're not meant as stand alone matieral, they cover some of the huge gaping holes in diver education that the recreational agencies do not even begin to cover in detail (my guess is lack of time).

Skills like back kicking that allow better interaction with marine life, team diving that increase comfort level, and kicks that won't disturb the visibility are all covered. It's not the same as having an instructor, but for the price, it's a bargain that you really should take advantage of!

Hmmm, quote stuff not working. Have ordered the Essentials DVD, looking forward to viewing it - sounds like it covers lots of things I've wanted to know but was too embarrassed to ask

 

[trogloxene]

I've stated on here multiple times that AOW should be renamed to something else, maybe even as simple as open water 2. People do not understand that what it means, is you have advanced past the open water level, not that you're an advanced diver.

I agree I like open water 2! AOW is an extension of skills learned in OW. I took OW and a month later I started working on AOW to hopefully improve my basic skill set and become a better and safer diver.

Sean

 

[mrlipis]

I just completed my DM and took the course (and all accompanying courses) because I wanted to learn more. The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know. I have 90 dives, and while I feel I am experienced, that only means I am experienced in the 90 dives I have done and the knowledge I have acquired. The more I dive with newbies the more I realize how little they know upon completion of their OW and as far as I am concerned, the AOW is slightly better than a joke. Has anyone failed it?

I agree, "advanced" is the last applicable description.

Becoming a "diver" is a commitment and will be accomplished only with the greatest respect for this sport. Check the ego at the boat.

Bruce

 

[diver 85]

To the OP, so what's your point?............

 

[Laustimus]

To the OP, so what's your point?............

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[scubajcf]

At four dives, I thought I knew nothing.
At ten dives, I thought I knew everything.
At 100 dives, I thought why would anyone take a specialty class.
At 1000 dives, I thought why would anyone stop taking specialty classes.
At 2000 dives, I thought I still have a lot to learn.
At 3000 dives, I thought learning has no boundaries.
At 3800 dives, (in no particular order) I know a good diver is always learning. A good diver knows his limitations. A good diver asks why and doesn't just get spoon-fed data. A good diver has his ego in check. A good diver values all input, even that in which he will discard. A good diver relies on no one but himself. A good diver puts safety of himself and everyone else around him as THE highest priority. A good diver is always striving to be a great diver knowing it is an ever-moving target. A good diver knows that no dive is worth being his last. A good diver knows the difference between certification and qualification. A good diver always plans his dive and dives his plan. A good diver is redundant. A good diver is redundant. A good diver knows practice is essential and always works on basic skills. A good diver knows you can only be as strong as the weakest member in a team. A good diver respects nitrogen/oxygen and all other breathing mixes. A good diver never errors on the side of conservatism, he plans for it. A good diver has great boat etiquette. A good diver never (admits to) pees in his wetsuit! Most importantly, to be a good diver, you have to ... dive.

Please substitute her/she wherever appropriate in the above list.
Feel free to add to it.

 

[scubajcf]

I just completed my DM and took the course (and all accompanying courses) because I wanted to learn more. The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know. I have 90 dives, and while I feel I am experienced, that only means I am experienced in the 90 dives I have done and the knowledge I have acquired. The more I dive with newbies the more I realize how little they know upon completion of their OW and as far as I am concerned, the AOW is slightly better than a joke. Has anyone failed it?

I agree, "advanced" is the last applicable description.

Becoming a "diver" is a commitment and will be accomplished only with the greatest respect for this sport. Check the ego at the boat.

Bruce

Sorry, I know this is a little off the OP.

Label aside. The term being Advanced is a known marketing edge for all the agencies and it is too late to turn back now. Why was the course a joke? Were the performance objectives laid out in advance of the course? Did you meet with the instructor after completion of said performance objectives and get personal feedback?

I ask these questions, rhetorically, because I know most instructors do not do this with their advanced students. In fact, most instructors call this an experiential course. There is little coursework and the divework is just there to give you a sampling of five different specialties. Honestly, this sounds more like a program than a certification course.

It is essential when signing up for any course that you meet with the instructor at some point and discuss the following:

1. Course Objectives and Learning Requirements
2. How and when you will be evaluated. What is expected of you. What is the method for objective evaluation.
3. Course Agenda, Required Equipment, Recommended Equipment, Supplemental learning materials (books/learning/etc outside the required materials list).
4. Is practice time available in between learning sessions. Outside tutoring.
5. What will you be qualified to do after the course, and what yardstick are they using to evaluate this qualification.

Without going through these steps, you are signing up to be certified, not qualified. In many cases you are passed through because that is the status quo of the dive industry (but that is a separate issue).

To give you an example: (In my advanced course - ratio 1 to 4)
18 hours of class time
15 dives over three weekends

1. You must pass written tests (minimum 75% on all tests). There are EXACTLY 50 advanced skills in which you will need to pass in order to get certified. Dive 15 does have a final skill assessment 5. to it and the student must pass all skills.
2. All skills will be briefed before the dive. You will be given the exact skill, broken down, with the performance requirement. You do it exactly as it is briefed (not once, but multiple times) and you pass. You do not do it exactly as it is briefed, you get to do it again or you do not pass.
3. Course Agenda, Recommended and Required Materials Lists are provided at sign up. We have lots of supplemental information on a student Intranet and we also supply you with the US Navy Dive manual on CD as a reference.
4. Dives are done over three weekends. That leaves a minimum of 15 days of practice avaiable between course inception and course completion. We discuss team diving on the first night and leave it up to the team to MAKE SURE they practice skills.
5. As an Advanced Diver, you will be able to lead dives, handle advanced dive planning and gas management, dive to 130 feet doing non-decompression dives and have skillsets to practice ongoing prior to signing up for rescue. I usually recommend at least 10 dives between Advanced and Rescue. If you are handed a card, you earned it by passing a series of objective evaluations throughout the course.

 

[Tortuga68]

I think "many certified - few qualified" about sums it up

PADI AOW IMHO is mainly geared towards rec/tourist divers who want to be able to go on dive trips past 18m, and in the hands of many dive schools & instructors, it delivers the results you would expect from acheiving that goal in the least time/cost possible - which is what many of the 'customers' want

Having said that, while changing the name to OW2 or something else might change some people's attitudes to having the certification, it won't change anything about the course content or address poor instructors and/or divers who go on to AOW straight from OW with no experience in between

If you want to change something about the PADI system, what about getting rid of the Master Diver certification? I'm not trying to insult anyone who has it, but really it's just a certification saying you have a bunch of other certifications; surely that's Badge Collecting defined?

Based on my personal experience, I have a much higher opinion of SSI/TDI courses, although at the end of the day, it's still down to who teaches it and how it's taken on board by the student