What to do with scary adult divers whose children are better trained?
- Thread starter sohnje
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RonFrank
Contributor
I'm not clear that there is anything you can do, other than to encourage the kid to take more training, and try and drill some safety into his head.
I find it impossible to believe that this kids parents are so lax with his safety. Sad that. I hope they don't have to learn the lesson the hard way.
I find it impossible to believe that this kids parents are so lax with his safety. Sad that. I hope they don't have to learn the lesson the hard way.
Ayisha
Contributor
Yes, I definitely agree that the OP should report this suspicion of endangerment to the Child Protective Services or whatever protective agency you have in the U.S. As an educator, I am also required to report any suspicion of abuse or neglect to Children's Aid and/or the Police. In Canada, I do not have to prove it; I simply have to report a suspicion that the child is being endangered. It is up to the protective agency and police to investigate the suspicion. Anyone in charge of children at any time or a witness to endangerment should be able to report it. It would not only be for the child's best interest, it would also protect you if an accident happens at a later date.
If those parents were to tell the authorities (after an accident) that the child's o/w instructor suggested that he was not ready for ocean dives after certification and that he should just snorkel, handing out that c-card to that child at that time could become a nightmare of litigation for you. Be very careful what you sign your name to.
Reporting your concerns to SSI about the inappropriate dives the child is being exposed to could also protect you if the child has an accident. Insist that your written report is date-stamped and kept securely in your file and keep a copy securely yourself.
OP
So the father of the child in question comes into the shop today, and the whole dive training team just finished a planning meeting, we all looked at him and almost in uniscence ask if he is here to sign up for a refresher or safety course........ well he came in to look at regs and a dry suit for his son as he wants to try ice diving this winter season. We asked for him to produce his c-cards, before we could discuss selling regulators, and he has a whole three months under his belt after doing a padi course on vacation. But his wife was a navy diver, so he says, and she is going to teach him and his son everything they need. Well three different instructors politely informed him about how his diving skills needs to improve and that his son needs more experience and training for no other reason that he is a novice diver. emphasisze that going from quarry diving to ocean is a transition in learning and requires some additional techiniques. Same thing we see when warm water divers try to dive cold. While all the basics of suba are the same, never wearing a 7mm farmer john before while experiencing two foot vis. freaks out alot of very experienced ocean divers. A bit of practice and guidance from a fellow experience diver is typically all it takes to catch up the learning curve.
Long story short, it appears that his wife has been feeding him bad info on top of what appeared to be a very abbreviated vacation dive course. Personally addressed the safety concerns we all had, and particullarly the need to follow safety guidelines. He said his wife said I was exaggerating the dive rules, so I pointed it out in the chapters from the student handbook.
At least we got him thinking. He took the whole, "we don't want you diving with us again until you get better training sppech" as a joke. He was actually devastated when he figured we were serious.
He left scratching his head and needing to talk to his wife about everything we presented. So there is thick headed, and then there is brain dead. In the twenty years that the local shop has been in existence,the head exec said he never had a situation like this before. He typically weeds things like this out before assigning the studenta to class. We talked about adding a parent assesment. Our issue is the safety of a child, but we discussed this issue is the same with all other organized sports and activities. I still personally believe the "navy seal mom" perhaps got a section 8 disharge or maybe needs to reduce her testosterone level. She reminds me now of young male divers that wear a superman cape when they dive.
Long story short, it appears that his wife has been feeding him bad info on top of what appeared to be a very abbreviated vacation dive course. Personally addressed the safety concerns we all had, and particullarly the need to follow safety guidelines. He said his wife said I was exaggerating the dive rules, so I pointed it out in the chapters from the student handbook.
At least we got him thinking. He took the whole, "we don't want you diving with us again until you get better training sppech" as a joke. He was actually devastated when he figured we were serious.
He left scratching his head and needing to talk to his wife about everything we presented. So there is thick headed, and then there is brain dead. In the twenty years that the local shop has been in existence,the head exec said he never had a situation like this before. He typically weeds things like this out before assigning the studenta to class. We talked about adding a parent assesment. Our issue is the safety of a child, but we discussed this issue is the same with all other organized sports and activities. I still personally believe the "navy seal mom" perhaps got a section 8 disharge or maybe needs to reduce her testosterone level. She reminds me now of young male divers that wear a superman cape when they dive.
What's the SSI standard for overhead environments? PADI won't let you do a cavern specialty -- let alone ice -- until you're 18.
I guess it depends on how much involvement you want to have with this family. If you tell him not to dive with you, then chances are he won't...but if you offer it in a more positive way -- "we think you could really benefit from this course because..." -- then you might actually succeed in making at least one of them a responsible diver. One thing I really like seeing is parents and kids taking courses together, so maybe that's an angle you could encourage.
Oh! And make sure to write down today's date and everything you discussed with this guy to stick in the kid's file. Get the other instructors to do the same.
After reading the above posts I have to agree the parents are stupid and shouldnt have allowed their son to have done the dives he did on vacation. They are at fault the buck stops with them, however IMHO some dive charter operators (and I see it all the time when I travel in the tropics) have a great deal of blame laid squarely on their shoulders as well. The kid wasn't certified/trained to do the dives he was lead on so why the hell was he at that depth. A good operator should and does asses c-cards and logged dives and limit the clients dive to their qualifications. I realise that seeing someone's logged dives and c-card does not indicate someone's skill level but it does allow the operator to make an informed decision. Yep the parents are stupid but so was the charter operator
LiteHedded
Contributor
As the mother of a kid who did OW at 10 and worked his way up to JMSD at 14 I may have some perspective on this.
My husband got certified only because our son was so intent on diving. In 4 years son racked up twice as many dives as hubby.
At first we required that hubby and son triple buddy with an instructor. They slowly gained more independence until they no longer felt the need for a more experienced guide/buddy. They now dive together as a pair and I would trust either of them in an emergency.
No 12 year old, no matter how mature, is ready to rescue a parent on the first post-cert. dive. For that matter, I think few adults are really ready to do the same. Just handling a standard dive without a course instructor looking over one's shoulder is enough of a challenge for the first few dives. (Maybe I'll get flamed for this opinion, and as a newly certified diver myself I clearly have little experience compared to all the instructors and DM's out there, but I believe that part of taking personal responsibility is diving under conditions that will keep both you and your buddy safe and I think a little bit of conservatism goes a long way.)
It sounds like you've done all you could to talk this family into safer diving. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to prevent people from acting like idiots if they truly want to disregard your advice.
As for the future, my advice would be to "require" new junior divers to do their first few post-cert. dives with an instructor. You can't actually require this, as you have no way of monitoring it, but it would send the message that you're serious about not releasing a new underaged diver to go out with a less than fully trained buddy. Have the parents sign a piece of paper committing to it as a condition of taking on a JOW dive candidate. If you know one of the parents to be an experienced, responsible diver you can waive the requirement.
My husband got certified only because our son was so intent on diving. In 4 years son racked up twice as many dives as hubby.
At first we required that hubby and son triple buddy with an instructor. They slowly gained more independence until they no longer felt the need for a more experienced guide/buddy. They now dive together as a pair and I would trust either of them in an emergency.
No 12 year old, no matter how mature, is ready to rescue a parent on the first post-cert. dive. For that matter, I think few adults are really ready to do the same. Just handling a standard dive without a course instructor looking over one's shoulder is enough of a challenge for the first few dives. (Maybe I'll get flamed for this opinion, and as a newly certified diver myself I clearly have little experience compared to all the instructors and DM's out there, but I believe that part of taking personal responsibility is diving under conditions that will keep both you and your buddy safe and I think a little bit of conservatism goes a long way.)
It sounds like you've done all you could to talk this family into safer diving. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to prevent people from acting like idiots if they truly want to disregard your advice.
As for the future, my advice would be to "require" new junior divers to do their first few post-cert. dives with an instructor. You can't actually require this, as you have no way of monitoring it, but it would send the message that you're serious about not releasing a new underaged diver to go out with a less than fully trained buddy. Have the parents sign a piece of paper committing to it as a condition of taking on a JOW dive candidate. If you know one of the parents to be an experienced, responsible diver you can waive the requirement.
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