What to look for in a flash light

[BDSC]

The real take away is this. As a consumer you don't have to worry about any requirements of 38.3 as those requirements have already been satisfied by the original shipper of the batteries. So if you go into a store and buy some lithium batteries off the shelf, in order to get shipped to that store, they would have had to meet those requirements. Same as if you buy a product like a dive light with a battery. You don't need to worry if the battery meets 38.3. Manufactures of batteries are not even required to put on the package that it has met any part of 38.8 so imagine the nightmare if you had to somehow prove it did.

Now if you are somehow making your own batteries then it could be an issue I suppose.

 

[Patoux01]

Batteries yes, probably. Canisters not so much, especially sealed canisters.

 

[tbone1004]

The real take away is this. As a consumer you don't have to worry about any requirements of 38.3 as those requirements have already been satisfied by the original shipper of the batteries. So if you go into a store and buy some lithium batteries off the shelf, in order to get shipped to that store, they would have had to meet those requirements. Same as if you buy a product like a dive light with a battery. You don't need to worry if the battery meets 38.3. Manufactures of batteries are not even required to put on the package that it has met any part of 38.8 so imagine the nightmare if you had to somehow prove it did.

Now if you are somehow making your own batteries then it could be an issue I suppose.

that is not true. responsibility for un38.3 when transporting is on the owner and operator of the batteries, not on the original manufacturer. there are also a lot of questionable things being done with shipping these big batteries. Light Monkey, DPV manufacturers, etc. all make much larger batteries than is allowed to ship, and very few have gone through un38.3 testing because of the astronomical cost of doing so. Batteryspace ships prototype batteries regularly that haven't gone through un38.3 and are able to do so with some permits that they have for shipping "for testing purposes" under class 9 permits.
UN38.3 is a destructive test that costs several thousands of dollars on top of the cost of the actual battery packs.

With this, companies like UWLD have battery pack that gets stacked in parallel inside of the larger canisters. I.e. the mini is a 1x pack, short is 2x, and tall is 3x of the same pack. The one pack is certified and because the entire assembly is under 160wh it can fly. UWLD actually has UN38.3 Compliant engraved into the exterior of their battery packs to try to make it as easy as possible for the operators. @Bobby can probably elaborate a bit more.

Light Monkey has their two smaller packs certified and they use a weird isolation system in the cap that separates the batteries which is a bit of a grey area.
Dive Xtras has gone to using a commercial battery pack for scooters in the Piranha which is why the battery slice concept is used there in lieu of custom batteries from Deep Sea Supply like the Fury had.
Other companies like Silent Submersion, Suex, etc. have not had their batteries tested and are technically not allowed to ship them unless they are going through the same "for testing purposes" bit and shipping class 9. It's sketchy either way and not something I'd really be keen on finding out the hard way

 

[BDSC]

What is not true?

How in the world would you ever prove to the TSA that the batteries you are carrying conforms to UN38.3? Let's say you have a 4 pack of AA lithium ion batteries with you. What is the regular guy going to do to prove that those batteries conform to UN38.3? Are you to carry with you some sort of form from the manufacturer that states those batteries have been tested and pass the UN38.3 sniff test? Would a TSA agent ever ask a person that? Would a TSA agent even know what UN38.3 is?

So what do you do when you are going through TSA? Do you have a copy of all of those test forms to show you are in compliance?

 

[JohnnyC]

I own an UWLD Tall canister. Bobby has a nice document showing compliance that I keep wrapped around the canister. No problems thus far.

 

[tbone1004]

What is not true?

How in the world would you ever prove to the TSA that the batteries you are carrying conforms to UN38.3? Let's say you have a 4 pack of AA lithium ion batteries with you. What is the regular guy going to do to prove that those batteries conform to UN38.3? Are you to carry with you some sort of form from the manufacturer that states those batteries have been tested and pass the UN38.3 sniff test? Would a TSA agent ever ask a person that? Would a TSA agent even know what UN38.3 is?

So what do you do when you are going through TSA? Do you have a copy of all of those test forms to show you are in compliance?

yes, it is on the person to carry those forms if they are requested by TSA. It is their job to know and ask for it if they feel so motivated. Many probably won't, but you don't want to get caught by the guy that does. Any battery that you purchase should come with the certification form. For individual cells they will usually not ask since the cells themselves are IIRC all compliant, but it is the packs themselves that have to be tested. There are a lot of grey areas here with a lot of misinformation that goes around, but I really don't want to have a pack confiscated because I get stuck with the one jackass at the airport or especially travelling internationally. Australia is particularly nasty about this and I at least 2 LM packs that I know of have been restricted from flying out of that country despite flying in from the US.

Dive Rite on their handhelds has circumvented this by using individual cells for their lights instead of small packs in order to save that cost. It sacrifices convenience and size, but probably saved $5k in the development cost of the light.

For reference, here is the link to the one from for UWLD. In addition as stated above, the canisters are engraved with UN38.3 compliance to try to assist with that.
http://uwlightdude.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/UWLD-Air-Travel-Info-Cert-2015.pdf

Attached is a picture of the cert for Light Monkey

 

[BDSC]

Any battery that you purchase should come with the certification form.

I have purchased batteries all my life. AA's, AAA's, small watch batteries, batteries for dive computers, etc etc. Not one single battery I have ever purchased has come with a certification that they meet UN38.3. It's not written on the package and I never got a sheet. I purchase lots of batteries for work and I have never received any sort of form you are talking about. When you go and purchase some batteries from Walmart or get a battery replaced for your dive computer do you ask for that form? I never have.

 

[tbone1004]

I have purchased batteries all my life. AA's, AAA's, small watch batteries, batteries for dive computers, etc etc. Not one single battery I have ever purchased has come with a certification that they meet UN38.3. It's not written on the package and I never got a sheet. I purchase lots of batteries for work and I have never received any sort of form you are talking about. When you go and purchase some batteries from Walmart or get a battery replaced for your dive computer do you ask for that form? I never have.

they don't have to unless they are rechargeable lithiums. I.e. for alkaline, SLA, NiMH, etc. there is no certification process for them. If you are purchasing large lithium batteries that are intended to be shipped, then it should be made available *also only really an issue since 2015/2016 so only a new concern*.

Things like DPV's, dive lights, ebikes, etc. all require them. Not much else is using rechargeable lithium that is intended to be shipped at this point. I think with the Piranha you have to ask for the certification and they'll email it to you, not sure if it comes with the dpv when it ships or if you need to ask for it if you need to ship it. For some reason I can't tag Ben's username but if you're curious I'm sure you can ask him. He's Kaizerwilhelm on here or you can just email them if you're that curious.

 

[FinnMom]

I would look around and ask around to see what other folks in your area are using and why. There may be things about local prices, repair facilities, etc. that we just wouldn't know.

I like Metalsub canister lights. These have been popular in Ireland as well. They are inexpensive, tough as nails and pretty much never flood. I like the flattened battery pack and the fact that the switch is on the lamp, not the battery pack => never out of reach. This brand seems to be vastly less popular now, definetely not as cool (not black). So far I like that even better because it has made the prices drop. People also don't seem to realize that the battery tanks can be re-packed, which also lets you pick up bargains. I've got 3 full sets now

But talk to locals who own and use but are NOT selling lights. See what they own and why, and ask what they would like to buy and why. Local situations can be very different.

 

[KeithG]

I have purchased batteries all my life. AA's, AAA's, small watch batteries, batteries for dive computers, etc etc. Not one single battery I have ever purchased has come with a certification that they meet UN38.3. It's not written on the package and I never got a sheet. I purchase lots of batteries for work and I have never received any sort of form you are talking about. When you go and purchase some batteries from Walmart or get a battery replaced for your dive computer do you ask for that form? I never have.

I believe you are thinking about normal consumer batteries in small quantities. No issues (except for maybe CZM?)

Every now and then the dive world strays a bit into the strange. And a little bit strange becomes normal for some (many?) divers before the rest of the world catches up. Canister lights are my easy example. Big cans full of unknown battery like stuff. Not something the airport security apes have seen before.