I've noticed and tell me if you guys agree, it is usually on fresh water where I hear most stories like this. I have heard a lot of them from the divers in Michigan, I think especially on inland lakes people are not accustomed to Diving, they think of it as a purely "Ocean" sport. I even had one guy ask me "why would you want to dive an inland lake, there are no reefs or sharks" I said well you just answered part of it, there are no reefs or sharks! A change of scenery is nice, not to mention if you happen to be one of the lucky divers in the Great Lakes to find a load of 150 year old Virgin White Pine timber and sell it for millions like the guy in Minnesota did up in Lake Superior. I will have to find a picture I have around here it is pretty hilarious, I was out Ice Fishing on Lake Margrethe in Northern Michigan when I saw a Diver Down flag sitting on the ice with three guys by it, I was not a diver yet but thought it was hilarious to see fishing shanty's, people in down parkas and hunters orange suits sitting around fishing and not 100 yards away there was a diver down. Turns out about a week before a drunk on a sled (snowmobile) had gone through the ice, he lived but they had to find the sled and bring it up.
Whats the Flag for??
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tplyons
Contributor
Unbelievable. When I got my boating license, I was required to take an 8 hour safety course. We reviewed dive flags ad nauseam (but I think he was a diver).
It's not even an uncommon flag.
It's not even an uncommon flag.
R
redacted
Guest
You have the option of answering the question without surfacing. Get a dive flag (float) that says "DIVER BELOW". Should help if the problem really is ignorance.
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Unfortunately, it's also quite common in saltwater. The most aggregious I've seen was a guy who literally ran over a large buoy with a dive flag and DIVERS BELOW printed in large letters on the side of the buoy.The boat was large ... perhaps 40-feet ... and doing well over 10 knots in a posted no-wake zone, along a popular swimming beach. The entire episode was videotaped by the parents of one of the OW students who were in a class being conducted in 20 feet of water beneath the buoy. When we contacted the Seattle Harbor Patrol, identified the boat, and offered to give them the video as evidence, we were informed that unless the guy actually hit and injured someone there was nothing they could do about it.
What's really perplexing is that Seattle has an ordinance requiring divers to use a flag! Why bother if the authorities aren't going to enforce violations by those who decide to just ignore it? There's no upside that I can see for the diver ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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Here in south florida, the Dive flag is a tool for Law Enforcement to use for revenue collection....It is pretty much like setting up a laser speed trap, on the safest road for high speed travel possible, where drivers will feel comfortable driving a little faster...and so speeding ticket traps can become a profitable use of an LEO's time.
As to the Dive flag being a safety device on South Florida Waters, by itself, it is ridiculous.... Think--- wearing seatbelts in a car on I-95, but having no brakes, and going 70 mph. Planning on wearing seatbelts to make you safer, is not complete thinking. Fixing the brakes--- means having a boat WATCHING AND PATROLING your Flag area...Like our dive charter boats do.
Divers without Flags and with no boats following them, get ticketed by LEO's here. Out on the main reefs, that is probably for the best, because it is foolish to do this.
At a place like the BHB Marine Park, in an area full of dive flags, and known to the boaters as a dive area, each diver should not need to have their own flag, and this is the revenue issue, not a safety issue in LEO activity. Lots of tickets get issued here, and it has nothing to do with diver safety. Nothing.
Go out on the first reef-line of Palm Beach or Broward, with just a flag, and you are NOT getting protection from the flag. Have a boat patrolling, using your flag to know where to patrol, and now the flag has a purpose, and it works.
Same on the main 60 foot reefs or deeper.
Never , ever, believe that a flag by itself, will make you safe from boaters or jet-skiiers. If you can't afford to be on a charter boat, or have one patrolling your dive area, then tow a kayak with a flag, or a big paddle board with a high flag, because boaters will not want to damage their props on your kayak or stand up paddle board.
As to the Dive flag being a safety device on South Florida Waters, by itself, it is ridiculous.... Think--- wearing seatbelts in a car on I-95, but having no brakes, and going 70 mph. Planning on wearing seatbelts to make you safer, is not complete thinking. Fixing the brakes--- means having a boat WATCHING AND PATROLING your Flag area...Like our dive charter boats do.
Divers without Flags and with no boats following them, get ticketed by LEO's here. Out on the main reefs, that is probably for the best, because it is foolish to do this.
At a place like the BHB Marine Park, in an area full of dive flags, and known to the boaters as a dive area, each diver should not need to have their own flag, and this is the revenue issue, not a safety issue in LEO activity. Lots of tickets get issued here, and it has nothing to do with diver safety. Nothing.
Go out on the first reef-line of Palm Beach or Broward, with just a flag, and you are NOT getting protection from the flag. Have a boat patrolling, using your flag to know where to patrol, and now the flag has a purpose, and it works.
Same on the main 60 foot reefs or deeper.
Never , ever, believe that a flag by itself, will make you safe from boaters or jet-skiiers. If you can't afford to be on a charter boat, or have one patrolling your dive area, then tow a kayak with a flag, or a big paddle board with a high flag, because boaters will not want to damage their props on your kayak or stand up paddle board.
minnesnowta
Registered
Last summer hubby and I were shore-diving very shallow in 15 feet. We had rigged up a dive flag to an innertube with a little anchor on it. I feel like it almost attracted boaters more than warned them off. A few boats came very close to our homemade buoy, probably because they had no idea what it was and wanted to check it out. I'm sure some of them thought it was a lost toy. We weren't down very long...maybe a half-hour...but came back to shore because the boats seemed too attracted to our buoy.
I agree with what other posters have said, about boater's safety. I remember taking a boater's safety course (just like firearms safety) where you had a book and a test to take. Dive flags were definitely in that book, I remember distinctly (mostly because it's kind of fun learning what different flags/signals mean). This was in the mid-90s. I have no idea what boater's safety is like today. I do know that it's not required to operate a boat in Minnesota though.
In touristy northern Minnesota, anyone can rent a boat for the day, all you need a driver's license. You should see these people just trying to navigate through channels. I'm not faulting the boat rental places...they are trying to make a buck just like the rest of us, and it is so tough when you live in an area that depends so much on tourist dollars. Diving is not the most popular activity up there either.
I agree with what other posters have said, about boater's safety. I remember taking a boater's safety course (just like firearms safety) where you had a book and a test to take. Dive flags were definitely in that book, I remember distinctly (mostly because it's kind of fun learning what different flags/signals mean). This was in the mid-90s. I have no idea what boater's safety is like today. I do know that it's not required to operate a boat in Minnesota though.
In touristy northern Minnesota, anyone can rent a boat for the day, all you need a driver's license. You should see these people just trying to navigate through channels. I'm not faulting the boat rental places...they are trying to make a buck just like the rest of us, and it is so tough when you live in an area that depends so much on tourist dollars. Diving is not the most popular activity up there either.
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Dan ... the way to get the dive flag problem resolved at BHB is to have a day when 50-100 divers show up ... each towing their own flag. Make sure the flags are on large buoys, tethered to heavy poly rope ... the kind that can really foul a propellor. Tow them all out at the same time ... tie them off to something sturdy, and leave them down there for the whole day.
The howl from boaters who can't navigate under the bridge without fouling their props should be loud enough for the LEOs to get the message ... and the beauty of it is that all you'll be doing is complying with the law ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Or BHB may be designated a no dive zone
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The stupid thing here, is that where people dive, there is essentially zero boat traffic. There is an occaisional skiff that will come in with a dirt poor fisherman without teeth or a clue what flags mean, but they have rarely been a factor...the typical boat that would be a problem, is the patroling Sherrif or Marine Patrol boat...
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In the early 1960s I wrote the description of the divers flag for the US Coast Guard Auxiliary which was incorporated into the famous boating text book "Chapmans." I must have been too verbose since my submission was reduced appreciably to any resemblance to what I wrote and what was published in these documents is purely coincidental. BUT the recognition of a dive flag is mentioned almost as a passing subject --It should be taught in the safe boating courses ...I have not seen the latest Chapmans so I am not aware of what is printed in relation to a divers flag
In the early days of diving there was only one publication for diving "Skin Diver Magazine; a magazine for Skin Divers and Spearfishermen."
In the mid 1960s I was honored as their very first "Guest Editor." (This was a big honor-the very first guest editor! I had previously appeared on the cover of SDM and had published a number of articles- Only person in the history of SDM to receive all three honors)
The title of my work was "Signpost to safety-- the divers flag." In the article I urged all divers to proudly display the new symbol of our sport, the divers flag; on the bumpers of their automobiles, at their work place; on club jackets and if dressed formally in their lapels... and they did! There was an almost immediate response to my call, for Dive flags seemed to sprout up like weeds, now it seems they are as rare as weeds in Martha Stewart's garden
In the late 1950s early 1960s, in SoCal, divers created a poster of a boarting fatality; A person who had been struck and killed by a boat. Horrible horrible picture of a body that had been struck by a boat..It was eye catching poster. I still have the only remaining original, but it is just too graphic to be shared in any way with the current diving population.
It was posted in most all marinas and dock in the SoCal-- it got the word across and well!.
Has anyone contacted the diving equipment manufactures for a donation for a nation wide dive flag awareness program ???????
Has any one began collect funds to establish a War Chest to promote the Dive Flag???????
How about those of you who frequent the docks? Would you take time to post posters about the dive flag?
Will you complain about boats not recognizing the dive flag ...... YES! Often and loud
I would also suggest-- urge -- that you publicize the divers by proudly display the flag on your vehicles, on you boats and on your floats.. Displaying a red and white divers flag is no assurance that you will not have an accident and sufferer the pain and its debilitating effects of being injured but if you do have and accident and are flying the dive flag you certainly have recourse as established in a Long Beach California court of law over 50 years ago by the Toso vs Burns litigation. ---
sdm
In the early days of diving there was only one publication for diving "Skin Diver Magazine; a magazine for Skin Divers and Spearfishermen."
In the mid 1960s I was honored as their very first "Guest Editor." (This was a big honor-the very first guest editor! I had previously appeared on the cover of SDM and had published a number of articles- Only person in the history of SDM to receive all three honors)
The title of my work was "Signpost to safety-- the divers flag." In the article I urged all divers to proudly display the new symbol of our sport, the divers flag; on the bumpers of their automobiles, at their work place; on club jackets and if dressed formally in their lapels... and they did! There was an almost immediate response to my call, for Dive flags seemed to sprout up like weeds, now it seems they are as rare as weeds in Martha Stewart's garden
In the late 1950s early 1960s, in SoCal, divers created a poster of a boarting fatality; A person who had been struck and killed by a boat. Horrible horrible picture of a body that had been struck by a boat..It was eye catching poster. I still have the only remaining original, but it is just too graphic to be shared in any way with the current diving population.
It was posted in most all marinas and dock in the SoCal-- it got the word across and well!.
Has anyone contacted the diving equipment manufactures for a donation for a nation wide dive flag awareness program ???????
Has any one began collect funds to establish a War Chest to promote the Dive Flag???????
How about those of you who frequent the docks? Would you take time to post posters about the dive flag?
Will you complain about boats not recognizing the dive flag ...... YES! Often and loud
I would also suggest-- urge -- that you publicize the divers by proudly display the flag on your vehicles, on you boats and on your floats.. Displaying a red and white divers flag is no assurance that you will not have an accident and sufferer the pain and its debilitating effects of being injured but if you do have and accident and are flying the dive flag you certainly have recourse as established in a Long Beach California court of law over 50 years ago by the Toso vs Burns litigation. ---
sdm
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