Why buy the best gear?

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partridge:
Lets face it. There are just some people who just want to own the best that they can afford. Of anything. The best dive gear, mp3 player, car etc

These are the same people who would buy experience if it were for sale. I buy good quality, often used gear. Rarely the best and never the best brand new. Don't buy the best and say it's because your life depends on it when good, redundant equipment and experience is more likely to save your life.
 
I've been reading this thread and feel the need to toss my 2 cents in.

I started my classes in April of this year, and since I'm not the most comfortable in the water, knew I needed to trust my gear as much as possible. When I signed up for my class, I was told I needed my personal equipment, so I went ahead and bought that stuff and my classes that first day. A total of $600 at that moment. Since I was taking the classes for a planned trip to Hawaii, I knew I couldn't spend all my money on equipment (even though I wanted too.) So I started looking at ways to save a little here and there on the really expensive stuff. Regs, computer, octo, BC, you get the picture. I figured the thing I had to trust the most was the regs, so I looked at the LDS that I was taking my classes through. They were the most expensive of the 3 LDSs I have in my area. Also, they have a VERY limited selection.
So, I started checking at the other two. I found that one of them sells their rental/class equipment at very reasonable rates. Since I could buy a Seaquest XR2 Cryo, with its second stage, and a new Mares Octo for about $250. I felt pretty good about it. The Owner of the LDS also told me that he had just rebuilt it and it should serve me well as I was a beginner.

To cut this short, the LDS that I took my classes through wasn't happy I spent this money through someone else, but the way I look at it is: 1. I got a very good regulator for a good price, that I could afford. 2. I spread my money between all of the LDS (bought some other stuff from the 3rd place.) to support them all a little. 3. The LDS that I took my classes through still gets the bulk of my cash.

I may not have the newest or best, but am aquiring solid equipment that can be serviced and used with very little worry that it will fail.

If I got off the subject some, I do appolgize. I just feel sometime as I walk into the LDS I took my classes through, that they look at me as a paycheck first, and a diver second.
 
Atomic is the most overpriced piece of "expletive" on the market. While I'll agree that it is marginally better than a sherwood... it is at the bottom of a long list of others. Taking Atomic to 100+ feet may be dangerous and hazardous. It is made with inferior plastic materials and does not breathe adequately in certain positions.

This has been discussed widely here in other threads.

Top of the Line Regulators are made by:

Scubapro
Apeks
Poseidon
Aqualung

Midrange Regulators are made by:

Cressi-sub
Zeagle
Dive Rite
Atomic

Low End Regulators are made by:

Mares
Dacor
Sherwoood
Oceanic
IST
Aeris
Genesis
Tusa

Lets just be frank... a $200 Scubapro MK2 R190 outperforms the Atomic T1, M1, B2, Z1 etc... etc... everyday of the week. I dive some 270 days a year for work... and I wouldn't wear anything that says Atomic on it. I worked in a shop that sold it... the funny thing is that the shop owners pushed Atomic on their customers then snuck out the back door to dive their Scubapro. All of our Instructors refused to use the Atomics because they constantly free flowed, breathed with difficulty etc... We were constantly diving in front of students with SP and Apeks... not a single Instructor out of the 5 of us used Atomic. That ought to say something.

Ken






corybaby:
have you used "the best" ? compare an atomic b2 reg to a sherwood or any other inexpensive regs .... go to 100 ft and then tell me your reg is as good as mine............it will last for years and makes the diving way more safe and fun, its fun when your not worried about your 200$ first stage exploding after 5 years of service
 
I think a lot of factors come into play when buying gear – trust, comfort, price, etc. In my case, outfitting three I went with a mixed bag of top-of-the-line and economy. I went with the Zeagle Ranger LTD for myself and the Zena for my daughter and most likely my wife once she’s certified. We all agreed that the Zeagle line was the most comfortable and as a result we are inherently familiar with each others gear. As for computers, I used the same logic – three Oceanic computers. I selected the Pro +2 because of the large display and got the wrist models for my wife and daughter. Regulators were more subjective and I didn’t have a good way to evaluate them. Here my LDS was very helpful by ensuring me that virtually all regulators were safe and good. I went with a less expensive Oceanic line based upon their recommendation. Lastly, of the rack wetsuits didn’t fit very well so we went with custom from Triple L and saved about $300 per off the rack suits. I will continue to use them until I decide to go dry.

Bottom line, there is a reason for buying top of the line equipment whether you are new to the sport or a seasoned veteran. Each consumer will have different reasons and for me it was comfort and compatibility, which I translate as safer.
 
PhotoTJ:
We had customers bring them in, they had bought them online. They would ask us how to load the camera, or something like that. It's the same camera, they just change the sticker.

Hey. there are people who want the best gear jsut so they can show off the best gear. They seldom need it.

Nikon for example makes a few models, and they are NOT the same in the US as Internationally, the 8008 maybe the F801 in in Japan... But STICKERS, what in the ell are you talking about?

And you spent your days teaching people how to change film? Something smells fishy, and it ain't the fish!! :11:
 
Does high cost represent "Top of the Line?"

The answer in two words - Absolutely Not

I hate to keep harping on Scubapro... it would seem that I work for them or sell the products. Let me be clear - I do not work for Scubapro and I do not sell it. I dive with it - Period.

I dive with it because it has been around almost from the beginning. In fact, 30 Year old Scubapro regulators are still being used safely today - and you can still find parts for them when you need them. The entry level Scubapro regulator is basically unchanged from the way it was produced 20+ years ago. There is a reason. It works and it works well. The MK2 R190 workhorses I own are 10 and 8 years old respectively. They have dove all over the world - warm water, cold water (42 F), shallow water and deep water (150 FT) and never once have they failed or for that matter even freeflowed. Their cost is about $200 brand new.

Of course SP makes some very expensive regulator models also... and some of them are very nice. I like the MK16 S550 and others I know live and die with the MK25 G250 or S650. They cost nearly double the price of the MK2 R190... all I ever ask is why?

Balanced vs Unbalanced. Flow control valve? I ask who cares. I own all of the above Scubapro regs... but I dive for work everyday with the entry level MK2 R190.

Now aside from regulators, I say the rest of your equipment as a newbie should come down to one factor - comfort. BCD's, wetsuits, masks, etc... must all fit comfortably. Brands and costs don't matter much... but comfort does. Maybe the one that fits you right costs the most - I say buy it. Maybe the best fit costs the least - I say buy it.

The only thing I try to tell people is buy a solid - good breathing regulator... and it always comes back to the one thats been doing it for more than 30 years... there can be no argument... except I'll agree that Apeks are also right up there...

Ken



taylode:
I think a lot of factors come into play when buying gear – trust, comfort, price, etc. In my case, outfitting three I went with a mixed bag of top-of-the-line and economy. I went with the Zeagle Ranger LTD for myself and the Zena for my daughter and most likely my wife once she’s certified. We all agreed that the Zeagle line was the most comfortable and as a result we are inherently familiar with each others gear. As for computers, I used the same logic – three Oceanic computers. I selected the Pro +2 because of the large display and got the wrist models for my wife and daughter. Regulators were more subjective and I didn’t have a good way to evaluate them. Here my LDS was very helpful by ensuring me that virtually all regulators were safe and good. I went with a less expensive Oceanic line based upon their recommendation. Lastly, of the rack wetsuits didn’t fit very well so we went with custom from Triple L and saved about $300 per off the rack suits. I will continue to use them until I decide to go dry.

Bottom line, there is a reason for buying top of the line equipment whether you are new to the sport or a seasoned veteran. Each consumer will have different reasons and for me it was comfort and compatibility, which I translate as safer.
 
toodive4:
Does high cost represent "Top of the Line?"

The answer in two words - Absolutely Not

I hate to keep harping on Scubapro... it would seem that I work for them or sell the products. Let me be clear - I do not work for Scubapro and I do not sell it. I dive with it - Period.

I dive with it because it has been around almost from the beginning. In fact, 30 Year old Scubapro regulators are still being used safely today - and you can still find parts for them when you need them. The entry level Scubapro regulator is basically unchanged from the way it was produced 20+ years ago. There is a reason. It works and it works well. The MK2 R190 workhorses I own are 10 and 8 years old respectively. They have dove all over the world - warm water, cold water (42 F), shallow water and deep water (150 FT) and never once have they failed or for that matter even freeflowed. Their cost is about $200 brand new.

Of course SP makes some very expensive regulator models also... and some of them are very nice. I like the MK16 S550 and others I know live and die with the MK25 G250 or S650. They cost nearly double the price of the MK2 R190... all I ever ask is why?

Balanced vs Unbalanced. Flow control valve? I ask who cares. I own all of the above Scubapro regs... but I dive for work everyday with the entry level MK2 R190.

Now aside from regulators, I say the rest of your equipment as a newbie should come down to one factor - comfort. BCD's, wetsuits, masks, etc... must all fit comfortably. Brands and costs don't matter much... but comfort does. Maybe the one that fits you right costs the most - I say buy it. Maybe the best fit costs the least - I say buy it.

The only thing I try to tell people is buy a solid - good breathing regulator... and it always comes back to the one thats been doing it for more than 30 years... there can be no argument... except I'll agree that Apeks are also right up there...

Ken

I'm not sure where I said "Top of the line" equals high cost but that's generally so. Most manufactures, regardless of product, have a line up and they determine what is top of the line. Most cases this is also their most expensive.
 
chindiver:
I have been helping out at my LDS and it seems that whenever someone who is new to diving comes in, they have to have all of the best equipement and "coolest" accessories. It just makes no sense to me why some instructors and LDS owners try to convince their charges that the more expensive an item is the better. Aren't we teaching the wrong message? It just doesn't seem responisible as most of these people will only be diving once a year or less. I know what many will say; That it is how a LDS makes money, and that there are many people who do "strenous diving" that need the best equipement. I myself have been useing the same equipement since I started diving, and have over 500 dives on it, and I do not feel the need for anything else(and my gear is far from the most expensive) I guess I feel we should let new divers get their perverbial feet wet before we throw them in the deep end, equipement wise.

Well, I believe there are a few ways of interpreting "the best equipment".

The Best Equipment could mean, the most expensive and technical gear out there, which isn't always necessary.

The Best Equipment could mean to another person, the best suited / quality gear for their type of diving. Not the coolest or most expensive. I'm of this school.

So, for a new diver that just finished their OWC, I wouldn't recommend the latest and most expensive Poseidon coldwater/deepwater regulator setup out there. Instead, I'd educate on the different types of regulators out there, and with some questioning, advise them on a quality reg that isn't going to break the bank, but will still give them some room to grow into.

However, if a customer walked into your store, and requested the most expensive item you have while pulling out their VISA card, would you try and sway their decision? :crafty:
 
Originally Posted by 1RUSTYRIG
I think its ridiculous for newly cert'd divers to buy all their gear. They have yet to develop a dive "style" so how are they supposed to make an informed choice as to what gear would best suit them? Most haven't conquered bouyancy yet so why get locked in to a BC/weight system that doesn't suit them.


So let me get this straight. Instructors are pumping out certified divers whom in general can not control their buoyancy? I don't remember conquering buoyancy as a condition of being certified. I do remember during cert. asking questions about equipment and you know what? I got a lot of 'inform'ation. I also come here to get informed...And you know what? I bought a weight integrated/back inflated BCD, love it, and have no probs whatsoever. I must be ridiculous because I own all my other gear also, except for tanks. Those are next. I just might be committed to an insane asylum if I buy those! :11:
 
your out of your tree dude, you must need to sell more scubapro regs, sales down huh?
how many years in a row was it voted best reg of the year? 4? 5? i have 200 dives on mine and i can breathe freely in any position, never freeflows, ease of breathing is the same at 15 or 120fsw....
different strokes for different folks i guess?

toodive4:
Atomic is the most overpriced piece of "expletive" on the market. While I'll agree that it is marginally better than a sherwood... it is at the bottom of a long list of others. Taking Atomic to 100+ feet may be dangerous and hazardous. It is made with inferior plastic materials and does not breathe adequately in certain positions.

This has been discussed widely here in other threads.

Top of the Line Regulators are made by:

Scubapro
Apeks
Poseidon
Aqualung

Midrange Regulators are made by:

Cressi-sub
Zeagle
Dive Rite
Atomic

Low End Regulators are made by:

Mares
Dacor
Sherwoood
Oceanic
IST
Aeris
Genesis
Tusa

Lets just be frank... a $200 Scubapro MK2 R190 outperforms the Atomic T1, M1, B2, Z1 etc... etc... everyday of the week. I dive some 270 days a year for work... and I wouldn't wear anything that says Atomic on it. I worked in a shop that sold it... the funny thing is that the shop owners pushed Atomic on their customers then snuck out the back door to dive their Scubapro. All of our Instructors refused to use the Atomics because they constantly free flowed, breathed with difficulty etc... We were constantly diving in front of students with SP and Apeks... not a single Instructor out of the 5 of us used Atomic. That ought to say something.

Ken
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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