Why Computers Are Not DIR!

[The Kraken]

Please abide by post #28.

Thank you.

The Kraken

 

[cmalinowski]

I understand why reducing the amount of dependency on external pieces of gear i a good thing in a cave or overhead envrionment. I was just wondering if the dive computer folks came up with a computer that did things the way DIR wants it done, would it be accepted?

Not sure they could come up witha a DIR computer since it would just be a clone of yourself. DIR wants thinking divers, not people who rely on a computer. I can appreciate the argument for not having to do a lot of thinking while the crap is hitting the fan, but I still think that it's a better approach. As one gets used to thinking about the stuff, it becomes second nature.

I was out on a boat a few weeks back and was put with a buddy. She had many dives under her belt and was talking about her upcoming doria trip. I explained my plan for bottom time and stops, etc. Her response was "do whatever you need, I'm going to do what my computer tells me." She stayed with me on all of my stops, etc and was a good buddy in that we never got away from each other, etc. But I was amazed that had her computer broken, she wouldn't have had any idea what stops to make. When we got out she was "amazed that [her] computer gave [her] seven minutes of deco obligation on that dive". Meaning, she would have been lost if her computer had crapped out.

But, since this thread was really about this video, I did find that funny

 

[jviehe]

Two questions here. How do watches and bottom timers fit in? And, is it DIR to use a computer and back up with tables, or to use tables and back up with computer? Why or why not?

 

[Ben_ca]

Her response was "do whatever you need, I'm going to do what my computer tells me." She stayed with me on all of my stops, etc and was a good buddy in that we never got away from each other, etc. But I was amazed that had her computer broken, she wouldn't have had any idea what stops to make. When we got out she was "amazed that [her] computer gave [her] seven minutes of deco obligation on that dive". Meaning, she would have been lost if her computer had crapped out.

But, since this thread was really about this video, I did find that funny

The video was funny... some people are just too serious about some things....

Hey CM did you ask here why she didn't follow here computer? Better yet after she read that her computer saying she still had 7mins you should have pushed her off the boat

edit: spelling

 

[David Watson]

i can't seem to download that link. is there another place to get it?

 

[rainman_02]

Two questions here. How do watches and bottom timers fit in? And, is it DIR to use a computer and back up with tables, or to use tables and back up with computer? Why or why not?

You need depth and time information. A watch + depth gauge or a bottom timer + depth gauge are the "preferred" method, simply because you do not need to spend the money on a computer if you're not going to use all the features and since you are more dependent on the computer for deco information rather than tables...if you lose the computer you lose all deco information, if you lose BT + depth, your buddy's BT + depth gauge still works for the team.

The issue is -- electronics fail. It happens to computers AND electronic bottom timers. I can tell the story of one of my instructors who had his bottom timer fail on a deco dive. His buddy was diving a computer that was accurately reporting depth information, his bottom timer was reporting ~12 feet shallower than actual depth. At the 70' switch he thought the computer was wrong and switched (his buddy was signalling that he was too deep, but he thought the computer was broken and the bottom timer was right), his buddy waited until the next stop. At 20', he went to switch and his buddy again signalled they were too deep. After an underwater argument, the instructor deployed his SMB with a knotted line every 10'. He was shocked to find out there was ~30' of line between him and the surface. They switched at 20' based on his buddy's computer.

The lesson he taught us was that any electronics can fail for anyone and that even bottom timers are computers/electronics that can fail.

 

[RTodd]

I understand why reducing the amount of dependency on external pieces of gear i a good thing in a cave or overhead envrionment. I was just wondering if the dive computer folks came up with a computer that did things the way DIR wants it done, would it be accepted?

No. Here is the problem. Computers break more often than the 20 dive a year recreational crowd realizes. I use computers in guage mode as bottom timers because they have more features than a normal bottom timer. This year alone both a Suunto Vytec an da Uwatec tec (or whatever it is called) have failed on me. So, I am back to my old Uwatec bottom timer for now while I decide which one to waste money on for a minor convenience next.

This example isn't a very good DIR one since I did break DIR rules by diving. But, it does explain the benefits if truly learning to dive without a computer. A few months ago I stopped off in Hawaii and did a few shore dives with some of the local DIR guys. Getting into the water I discovered that my Uwatec was dead. Since the bottom was less than 50' and we were on EAN and the dive plan was less than an hour, I did the dive anyway with just my watch. I confirmed the depth with my buddy when we got down to around 20' and never checked again. When we got out of the water I was able to give him our average and max depth within less than 5' just because I am used to paying attention using my ears, amount of gas in my wing, glancing at the surface, etc.

My level of paranoia is due to the fact that when it hits the fan on a really task loaded dive it is nice to be able to focus on the situation and not have to check your depth gauge. But, even for open water divers, relying on a computer tends to keep people from really paying attention to profiles to gauge how to deal with their ascent. If the computer fails, they aren't as well equipped to deal with the situation. From a DIR perspective, this is a silly situation to put yourself in since you could simply learn how to dive the same profiles without a computer.

 

[cmalinowski]

...Hey CM did you ask here why she didn't follow here computer? Better yet after she read that her computer saying she still had 7mins you should have pushed her off the boat

Oh, she did follow her computer. She was just amazed that she had a deco obligation to follow. She had no idea why or how she got the obligation. So my point was that had her computer failed at depth just before we started our ascent, she would have been completely lost.

I said nothing. She had to miss the next dive because of a tank issue, so I opted out as well. She was nice enough and a capable diver, but I was amazed that she had no backup plan if her computer crapped out... or maybe I was her backup plan

Chris

 

[TomP]

Oh, she did follow her computer. She was just amazed that she had a deco obligation to follow. She had no idea why or how she got the obligation. So my point was that had her computer failed at depth just before we started our ascent, she would have been completely lost.

....

Chris

Wow Chris, I just looked back at your earlier post. If she has no clue about how and why deco obligations are incurred but is planning on diving the Doria, relying on her computer is the least of her problems.

 

[RS]

I don't have alot of dives under my belt, but I think it shows respect for other divers when you can demonstrate preparedness and have planned for and worked out some contingencies.

I had a buddy freak on a dive once because he lost his mask and it really was a bad experience, but it could have been so much worse. I'll be reading the DIR threads closely.

But back to more important stuff: Does anyone have access to the original BSOD mpg anymore? The link in the original post doesn't work.