Why do we hate the Air2?

[BDSC]

Oh, I'm quite sure anybody can be trained to donate the primary. But for example, in the classes taught at the shop where I sometimes DM, students are trained in standard short hose primary/longer hose clipped off octo. Then they are often sold the BC with the Air2, without any significant explanation of how the thing is to be used. They were taught to hand off their "secondary" regulator -- now it's an Air2, and nobody has told them you don't use it that way. Just as nobody tells them that, even if you ARE going to use it as designed, you need a longer hose on your primary regulator, because sharing on a 24" hose is a pain.

It's not the fault of the equipment. It's the fault of the salesperson who doesn't explain it, and the purchaser who doesn't do his homework. And people WILL revert to what they originally learned.

So have you ever suggested to the shop that they should go over the proper use of the AIR II in the class since they sell the system to divers?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Decided to giant stride into this thread as my first on this HUGE forum. Diving both configurations of gear (Back inflate/Air2 & BP/W DIR REC), I found the DIR approach of long house with necklaced Octo to be more suited for most of the diving I now do. Wreck, Cavern, OW.

The Air2 has only one place IMO and that is strictly OW. Properly used, PRACTICED and configured it will do the job it was meant to do. Long Hose on primary to be donated and Miflex on the Air2 to allow less restricted head movement. The issue of access to dumps then disappears. I like my Air2. It serves me well when applied as stated. IMO attempting to use it for any other type of diving is asking for problems though.

I will add this last.... At ANY time you find yourself diving with someone that has a different configured gear set, Communicate.. We all love to talk about our gear sets anyway. Forums are proof of that. Discussion also allows one to gauge the competency of the other "insta-buddy". This is most important for me when I decide to hit one of the local charters when the usual buddy can't make it. Be polite, humble and respectful. If your the Ego type you will the one everyone will be talking about later. Thanks and Safe Diving..

Practice matters ... and I think lack of practice is what gets most folks in trouble. A few months back I was giving an air management seminar. One question I posed to the listeners was "How many of you have practiced air share drills since your OW class?" Of the seventeen people in the room, two raised their hands ... :shocked2:

Most of us learned how to dive on rental gear, and as we went on to learn more and make our purchasing decisions, many chose equipment that was different than they were trained on. It ain't rocket surgery ... but some equipment does require slightly different technique than others. Make sure, whenever you switch to a different piece of equipment, that you take some time to practice using it for emergency situations ... because a real OOA isn't the time you want to be sorting all of this out ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dmoore19]

....he now can't see any of his gauges to control the ascent... snip

Not if he has a Datamask

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not if he has a Datamask

... well played, sir ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[gmanstan]

You'd think out of common sense that a diver would know "Short 18"hose=Me, longer 36" hose=OOA diver" , "My inflator =me, panicking OOA =NOT my inflator". Why you would give a panicking OOA diver access to your inflator(instant up button) is beyond me. If you want a better breathing Alt invest in a better 2nd.My Atomic breaths as good as my primary even at 130ft.

 

[EastTNDiver]

This speaks more of bad training than bad equipment choices.

The Air2 is designed and intended to be used by the donor ... not the receiver ... as per the manufacturer's instructions.

With ANY inline second stage, you donate the primary and use the inline backup. In that respect it has one of the major advantages you get with a long hose/bungee backup rig ... you know that the reg you're donating works ...

... Bob (Grateful Dive)

Bingo! If ops are training with a donated octo, and then pushing AirII's on their newly minted divers with no additional training in its proper use, that's hardly an argument against a given piece of gear.

Also, I just have to LMAO at those making up fear mongering stories as to how "difficult" it must be to use an AirII during an OOA scenario. For crying out loud, my 15-year old son performs this flawlessly using his AirII.

 

[mattoau]

I know of one dive operation that used AirII as a way to cut down on reg servicing costs. I've never looked into why there is a 2 year service interval, the product doesn't interest me.

 

[charlesml3]

Are you going to take it out and raise it up every time you need to vent? What about the fact that its right in your face. Are you going to vent all the air in your face?

Just pull the shoulder dump. If you're properly weighted you won't have much air in your BC anyway.

yet the contraption is connected to a giant sea anchor (jacket BCD).

Let me see if I have this right. The Air II is connected to your BCD via the corrugated hose and the air supply line. A "standard octo" is connected to the BCD via the air supply line. I fail to see the difference or how either scenario turns your BC into "a giant sea anchor."

If that thing fails I might lose both the functions of the octo as well as inflating/dumping gas of my bc.

Nonsense. You can always just blow air into it with an exhale. And any BCD has more than one dump.

They breathe inferior as compared to a quality second stage octo coupled with less functionality.

Correct. On the VERY rare occasion you may have to use it and donate your primary, it won't breathe as smoothly for the 10 or 15 minutes it might take you to get to the surface. If this is your biggest gripe then you have nothing to worry about.

AIR 2 systems dangle terribly.

That's just poor gear management. Anything can dangle if it's not secured properly. Even a "standard octo."

You have to donate the primary with AIR2... which means that you need a longer primary hose.

Nonsense again. Just grab BCD's and make a normal ascent. It's easy.

You need a specific LPI hose for use with the AIR2.

It's not the hose. It's the connection on the end and adapters are readily available. I carry one in my save-a-dive kit.

Streamlining

I love this one. A scuba diver is about as streamlined as a cinder block. If you're swimming so fast that you can tell the difference between having 2 hoses vs. 3, then you're Doing It Wrong.

AIR2, plus hose, will weigh more than a lightweight AAS on a short braided hose.

Well let's see. The Air II and the standard inflator both need a hose, so let's call that a wash. The comparison is now between an Air II on the left, and the combined weight of the "standard octo," the power inflator, and the extra hose for the octo on the right. Maybe I'm bad at weight estimations, but I'm gonna go with the left....

You have to donate the primary, which few divers are trained to do.

I'm not sure that's actually a fact. Even if we take it as so, that's easily solved with a pre-dive briefing. I look around the dive boats now and see more integrated octos than regular inflators now. They're becoming the standard.

The worst thing about the Air II to me, is that it will destroy swimming the way it will be used by most divers,

Ummm.... what? It will "destroy swimming." Please, for the love of all that is good, explain that one to me.

I have not seen a wireless AI computer maintain signal while scootering so you could know how much air is free flowing when their alternate/inflator is in the prop wash of an Apollo scooter.

I haven't seen good old Brass & Glass SPG that will do that either. If you're not paying attention to either one of them then they're both equally worthless. Or are you trying to say that there's something endemic about scooters killing the signal between a wireless computer and the transmitter?

 

[BDSC]

You don't belong on this thread charlesml3 because you are speaking logically and aren't making enough **** up!

 

[Scott L]

Let me see if I have this right. The Air II is connected to your BCD via the corrugated hose and the air supply line. A "standard octo" is connected to the BCD via the air supply line. I fail to see the difference or how either scenario turns your BC into "a giant sea anchor."

As far as I could ever tell, the only benefit of the Air2 is the elimination of one LP hose. If streamlining is the principal concern, why in the world would the diver be in a jacket BCD (significant drag vs. BP/wing) in the first place??? :headscratch: