Why do we white balance?

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Well,

A fine treatise on how to obtain a white balance, and on the surface a good explanation of what the white balances accomplishes, but still not a fundamental reason TO white balance.

Yes, if the GOAL is to achieve even and or accurate colors in the camera, then your advice is spot on. But suppose that is not the goal? Your explanation does not address the underlying why we perform the white balance.
 
Don't mean it to seem snobbish at all. I think HDV was always introduced as a stopgap to get consumers out of DV and to dip a toe into HD without the MASSIVE cost and requirements of real HD. Look at the HD standards that were in the field when HDV was introduced...

HDCam? DVCProHD? Are you going to honestly ask consumers to buy a Varicam or an F900? or anything close? A camera and a deck could cost as much as some small homes. So how do you supoort the consumer who is moving to 720p or 1080i TVs and wants a camera that can shoot for it? An economical solution had to be found, and it would be better if you could do that in a tape format they were already familiar with. When HDV was introduced, compact flash and solid state recording was HUGELY expensive.
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All I am saying is that I think there are different classes of "shooters" and the middle section gets (currently) a raw deal (i.e. I am agreeing with you).
I am just saying that if you really need a camera now, then you need a camera and you have to pick something.

In my mind, there are (roughly)

- People who get to dive relatively clear water with ambient light. These are served well by stuff like Sony HC9 1080i cameras etc. as they handle the good conditions pretty well.
- Serious broadcast people have "good enough" choices (but still not 100% perfect) but they are bulky & cumbersome
- The "middle" people who are willing to spend quite some $ but not on the broadcast level are in a kind of limbo where the lower-end cameras are not up to it, and the big ones are too big.

You don't like the FX1, but if I was re-buying a camera for what I shoot right now, today, and need something in the same price and size range, what realistically are the options ? Not that much honestly it seems.

HDV is the result of all kinds of ugly compromises, and you wont get an argument from me on that score. Having said that, the sheer amount of processing required to get HDV style compression is nothing short of amazing honestly.
 
I have a feeling that Panasonic is going to try to bury HDV next week. If they do that, they will be doing a HUGE favor to all the guys in the middle.

If I was serious about my shooting, and willing to work at it to be good, I'd shoot either the HVX or the new EX1. Each have their pluses and minuses, but both can give STUNNING images if you give them what they need to perform well. Both handle low light better than the HDV cams, and I am frankly surprised that the FX1 is as poor as it is in low light. It's a good camera and Sony cheaped out in this regard. The EX1 should do MUCH better with it's 1/2" sensors.

But you're right, the middle guys are stuck right now waiting for the good stuff to trickle down below $3500. It's coming. Compact Flash solutions are the way forward for nearly everyone. RED, HMC-150, The new Convergent box writing HD-SDI to CF... it's where things need to go, and you can ditch tape and tape acquisition forever.
 
I have a feeling that Panasonic is going to try to bury HDV next week. If they do that, they will be doing a HUGE favor to all the guys in the middle.

If I was serious about my shooting, and willing to work at it to be good, I'd shoot either the HVX or the new EX1. Each have their pluses and minuses, but both can give STUNNING images if you give them what they need to perform well. Both handle low light better than the HDV cams, and I am frankly surprised that the FX1 is as poor as it is in low light. It's a good camera and Sony cheaped out in this regard. The EX1 should do MUCH better with it's 1/2" sensors.

But you're right, the middle guys are stuck right now waiting for the good stuff to trickle down below $3500. It's coming. Compact Flash solutions are the way forward for nearly everyone. RED, HMC-150, The new Convergent box writing HD-SDI to CF... it's where things need to go, and you can ditch tape and tape acquisition forever.

Oh I agree with you (of course, as soon as those next cams come, along comes the promise of the next generation :)

My guess is that in 3-5 years most of us will be wondering what the heck a tape or a hard-drive is. Flash will be kind except for really high-performance server stuff.
 
I saw a 64GB CF card has been released. That card is larger than the HD on my desktop machine at my office.

Insane.
 
Well,

Yes, if the GOAL is to achieve even and or accurate colors in the camera, then your advice is spot on. But suppose that is not the goal? Your explanation does not address the underlying why we perform the white balance.

:) Myself - I WB in order to get correct colors (I guess that's the WB purpose). If your goal is to have wrong colors you got to decide HOW wrong! Take a green slate with you and WB with that. If you're not happy with the results, take a blue one or a red one. Once you've found something that's close to your wrong, falsified wish start taking light red and dark red. I'm sure - at some point you'll have colors so wrong that you'll be delighted! GOOD LUCK!
 
LOL!!!

Great answer!
 
Cool topic, PerroneFord. I would love to have some of my own understanding on this augmented by those of you with much more knowledge (most of you, I'm sure). I'm going to reference an answer to a post from several months ago that I posted regarding color correction in post, white balance, etc. Many of us don't have the option of white balancing in capture (manually, anyway) with our current equipment, so out of necessity, these questions are asked. I love the fact that Perrone asked them hypothetically so that we could get into the theory. So, excuse the long pasted section...but I wanted to keep everyone from having to go to the old post...but if you want, here it is: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/underwater-videography/192920-blue-video.html

I would love it if you guys could correct me where I'm wrong in this response, add info where it is missing, and basically help all of us understand more. Thanks in advance. The below cut and paste is two posts from me with some specific Sony Vegas tips snipped out.

Nitrox has given some good tips. I'll just add to that and offer some additional comments on filters, etc.

First, color correction filters do optically what white balance (during shooting) and color correction (in post) do digitally. They shift hues, they don't create or show color. At depth (more than 15 feet or so in sunlight), the water has filtered out some color already. The reds and yellows in the white sunlight are no longer present in their original intensity, so they aren't there to be reflected by that red coral...that's why it looks more grey (with maybe a little red). A filter, white balance, or color correction will not fix this...only video lighting will at the time you shoot (this is what DrBill is refering to with the Macro with lighting vs. wide shots...the latter is difficult to impossible to light). So...some of this color is gone...not matter what, and the only way to brin it back is to "paint" your video in post...a difficult, painstaking special effect (not many would do this unless being paid to do it), and still not true to life...just true to your vision.

Also, many who are somewhat knowledgable about videography, but not so much about underwater videography, will balk at using filters to correct color...because electronic video capture (unlike film) can be white balanced, which negates any color filters that may be attached. This is true...but underwater, the colors can be so shifted (more so than from, say flourescent lights) that it can tax some white balance systems on cameras. For that purpose, using an optical filter to shift some of colors back toward white lighting conditions can "assist" the white balance system of a camera. Ideally, you would have access to be able to white balance at depth...but this is not always possible, as in your case (and mine).

So, as long as you understand the difference between what lights (or a shallow depth in sunlight) do, and what a color filter/white balance do, then you can have educated expectations of what you can achieve in post production. You did not say which version of Vegas you have access to, but if it is Vegas 7 (or 6), this is the professional edition and has all of the tools you need. I think a subset of these tools, including some of the color correction features, are in what is called Vegas Movie Studio+DVD Platinum edition...which is the consumer version (and much cheaper version) of Vegas. There is a lower end edition of Vegas Movie Studio (non-platinum) that doesn't support HD, does not have any color correction, I don't think, etc., and probably won't do what you need it to do.

That said, Nitroxinator is correct in that the "white balance in post" tool most used in Vegas is the color corrector plug-in for video FX, of which he has a screenshot. I've been using the professional version of Vegas for video editing for some years (before sony owned it), so hopefully I can fill in the blanks a little here. Disclaimer: I ONLY know Vegas, I don't know how much of this applies to the consumer oriented Vegas Movie Studio Platinum or how many of these features and concepts they've left out of that version.

*** SNIPPED SOME VEGAS SPECIFIC STUFF ***

The easiest way to do this would be to have a shot of a white balance card, or something similar that you make up and maybe put on a slate or something. Shoot your white balance card, that ideally would have a white portion, a neutral grey portion, and a black portion, before each new "scene" while underwater (i.e. whenever you would have white balanced if you had that option). This gives you a basis to work from, and if you only want to balance as well as white balancing on site, you would only need to do this at each point you shot this slate or card. But, even with white balanced footage, most would "fine tune" color correction even more.

So...this is how easy this is with Vegas. Get to a frame of your shot of the card, and use the three complementary color eyedropper tools (one for each wheel: low, medium, and high tones) and click on the three netrual color areas of your chart respectively. One click on the black (for low), one click on the gray (for mid), and one click on the white (for high). The color points on the wheels will automatically change to the complimentary hue for each of these areas and you'll notice that the video magically just got white balanced (color corrected).

Since I know you don't have these card shots for your existing footage, you can still use this shortcut to some extent, by finding parts of your video that you know should have been black, should have been white, and should have been somewhat neutral gray, and using the droppers on those spots. Remember, the complimentary color eyedropper tool is the one with the minus sign, not the plus sign (which is the adjustment color eyedropper tool). These do very different (opposite, acutally) things. Read the online help file for more information on this, and I'll include a quick explaination of how this works in a following post for people like me that just have to know what is going on.

One last thing...you can forego the eyedropper tools, and manually adjust the hues to add for each brightness section of the video, and just eyeball where it should be...but this is less accurate and more time consuming. Either way, you'll get pretty good at this. And don't let anyone tell you that you can't get good video without a white balance control. I shoot with an HC1, which would require touch screen access to white balance, so I can't white balance at depth either (their are a few housing that do this...but I don't have one). I've shot very little video with this cam underwater, but the same problems exist topside, too. I color correct virtually all of my footage, even with proper white balance, just to fine tune, fix problems with lighting conditions changed slightly (happens all the time with handheld shots...or shots over time as the sun is going down, etc.). Color correction is an important part of post production...the changes just happen to be more pronounced when shooting underwater.

I would also suggest using a filter on your camera to assist in adding hues toward the red part of the spectrum optically, so color correction doesn't have to be so dramatic. The downside of this is that you are letting less light in, slightly.

Good luck...let's see that footage soon.

Bill~

EXPLAINATION OF THE COMPLIMENTARY COLOR EYEDROPPER TOOL (for gearheads only): The color wheels in the Sony Color Corrector Plugin allow the user to choose which hue to add from the color wheel (this is what a white balance does...adds a hue bias). The angle of the point selected from the center indicates the hue, and the distance from the center point indicates the intesity or ammount of hue to add. If you select the complimentary color eyedropper tool, and then click on your video somewhere in the frame, the point on the color wheel will automatically be moved to the complimentary color from the color under your cursor when you clicked on the frame (complimentary color means directly opposite on the color wheel).

So, say you shot some wide shot underwater video in the channel islands in California, and there is a greenish blue (mostly green) tint to your video. The color balance card that you shot at the beginning (see above) also has this tint. That means, the white part of the card is a bright, slightly green color, the grey is a darker, but still green color, and so on. By using the eyedropper as explained here, you will be clicking on or video on this sligtly green color. The complimentary color to green/blue is magenta/violet (look at a color wheel), and so this magenta/violet color is chosen in the color wheel, at the same intensity that the green/blue is in the video. Bam! Color corrected video.

Hope this helps.

Bill~
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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