Why junky, why not top of the line?

[macado]

"Junky" gear is a very subjective or even misleading term. Like others have said, in regards to regulators and BCDs most manufacturers (cheap or expensive) make safe gear. There is too much liability for a manufacturer to make a regulator that doesn't work.

In the example of Apeks regulators, ATX50, ATX100, and ATX200 second stages are the same thing yet I can buy an ATX50 for much cheaper than I can an ATX200. (Actually, I think the model is XTX now).

This seems to be a common thing for a lot of new divers that think they necessary need to go out in spend a lot money on the best/top of the line. A properly serviced 20 year old regulator is just as safe and and may breath just as good as a brand new regulator. (I'm not talking about diaphragm/piston/cold water differences)

You also have to keep in my mind a lot of gear is all made in the same factory and simply re-branded with a manufacturer label. Simply having XYZ brand on it means they will charge a lot more money.

My wing and backplate cost me around $400 brand new yet there are BCD that cost $800-$1000 even more. Does that make my setup junky or less safe?

EDIT: I can give you another example. I have 3 of the same exact masks however one of them is an OEM that I found online for 29.99. It is literally the same as my other two masks without the manufacturer's name imprinted on the side. The other "mainstream manufacturer" charges 50-90 dollars for this mask.

 

[knowone]

It requires a stability of mind to use pharmaceuticals (oxygen)
deeper than 20ft, during a dive with an indeterminate bottom

 

[Krazytomdiver]

As a dive guide,I use high-end, top of the line, name brand dive equipment to install false confidence in my more impressionable customers. You "look" & "buy" a professional apperance for job security and personal perference. Diving for a living,sometimes you find yourself dead broke on some far away remote island,no Western Union, no ATM,no phone service,no Internet,monster bar tab,no more 'lend friends',then you find selling your name brand dive equipment considerably easier than some unknown brand. Just my experience...

"living life without a hard bottom"
KT

 

[freewillie]

It is a question I would equate to wine and golf balls. Can you actually taste the differences and nuance in a $10 bottle of wine vs. a $100 dollar bottle of wine? Can you actually tell the difference in a $12/dozen golf ball or can you really make the Titelist Pro V1 spin to justify $60/dozen? If the answer to either question is no, then why spend the extra money. Just because Joe Snob says Opus on is the best wine ever and won't drink anything else doesn't mean that he can actually taste the difference, he just says he can. In fact, multiple studies have shown that the cost of the wine is more important when rating wines than in actual blind taste test. In otherwards, the perceived quality of the wine was equated to the price, not the actual taste.

If you are a new diver, can you actually tell the difference between a less expensive entry level reg vs. a higher priced high performance reg? To use Atomic regs as an example, the second stages are all the same with the biggest differences in the metals used for the first stage. So, the B2 should breath the same as the T2x but the difference is about $700 for the B2 and about $1200 or more for the T2x. Technically, the cheaper reg test the same as the more expensive reg. You are just paying for fancy titanium first stage instead of brass.

There is one diver in my local dive club that purposely uses a poor performing reg as an octopus. He actually wants you to have the 'sucking air through straw' sensation. :shocked2: His philosophy is next that you'll still get air and live to dive another day, but next time you'll pay more attention to your gas!

Since we all have different levels of income, buy the best you can afford. Just because it is not the most expensive doesn't mean it's a poor quality product. You don't want to be foolish with your money either.

 

[fjpatrum]

oh no I get that completely, I love package deals in fact i live for em. im not aiming the question as why buy less expensive gear, im wondering instead of getting something that is known to be of high quality or something that is used by many people because its a trusted item people sometimes want to skip out and spend money on the item with half good and half bad reviews or talk to people and they say its ehh, you could do better. trust me i definitely dont have an unlimited source of income. i work part time due to the fact im in school. thats why i shop around for the best deals and the best i can afford. Even with these deals out there im seeing a lot of people decide to not save the extra month and go for the "junkie" item. It doesnt make sense to me because this isnt a sport like soccer where you can skimp out on shin guards since essentially they all do the samething with no change usually in quality. you compare that to scuba diving where if you get a not very trust worthy say regulator. you go 80 feet down and you regulator breaks. Just because you wanted to save 50 bucks your now probably panicing trying to get a hold of your self and grab either yours, or your dive buddies alternate air source. in soccer you buy crappy shin guards as compared to good ones the difference is going to be maybe breathability of your legs...woohoo, wont be a life risking situation. basically my case and point is this isnt the hobby or sport to go for the less quality gear. so why do people continue to do so?

As Vladimir said, less expensive doesn't mean lower quality. Anyone telling you otherwise is simply lying to you or trying to sell you something. I'll recommend you do more research and make your decisions based upon more information. Honest dealers will tell you that the top of the line Apex reg is the same components as their "lower end" model, it's just made with Titanium instead of Brass or Steel or some other material (I don't know what else they might use). The design is identical and therefore the unit will work the same way. It's the difference of about $500 for a single reg though. If you choose to spend your money that way, fine, but that doesn't make other people's choices any less valid if they don't.

 

[rhwestfall]

To the OP: STOP DRINKING THE KOOL_AID!!! Seriously, if spending all your money makes you feel better, go for it. My 30+ year old garage sale ScubaPro regs continue to serve me unbelievably well, breathe effortless, and can be used to drive nails in a pinch.... My wife's $30 mask has served her for 15 years, and was one of the few that actually fit her face.... Maybe if I was doing 200 dives ayear, I might need to look for something else (but then again, maybe not)....

Do you drive a Rolls-Royce? Why not? Its the best you know......

Don't fall for the marketing poop - its no different in diving or in anything else...... get what you want, for the reasons you feel justify it.

As to your knife analogy: I like/use my $5.00 Opinel more often than some of my customs (and I have a bunch.... and there are some impressive names on my list)

 

[Rhone Man]

ok so ive been skimming through a lot of the threads here lately and I and finding some people who are trying to "just get by" with their gear, why is that?

The cheapest, crappiest gear on the market today is still considerably better than the gear I learned on in the early 80s.

 

[rhwestfall]

Tongue-in-cheek: I'd love you to go spend everything you have on the best stuff. Following many, I might have a chance to buy it off you for pennies on the dollar years later when scuba isn't all you thought it to be.......

 

[NuclearOOPS]

By the way you dont have a tank either, it is a cylinder. Not trying to be confrontational with you, just trying to help educate, dont take it as an attack.

Tank or cylinder. Doesn't really matter. These are definitions for "tank"

1. large container: a large container for storing liquids or gases

2. amount held by tank: the amount of liquid or gas that a tank holds
"bought a tank of gas"

3. container for fish: a sturdy container with rectangular glass sides, used for keeping live fish or reptiles in

4. pond or reservoir: a fairly small body of water, especially one used for water storage

5. jail: prison, or a prison cell ( informal )

6. military armored vehicle: a large armored combat vehicle with treads, a rotating turret, and a heavy gun

 

[rhwestfall]

as terminology goes, we call them tanks up here too.... but I will clarify that "getting tanked" has nothing to do with gearing up for a dive....