Wing v BCD

[Dive Right In Scuba]

I dive a back inflate BCD ...I upgraded from a jacket style and fell in love!! Like those in BP/W say, I will never go back....The difference is not many of them have had a back inflate. Alot go straight from a jacket to a BP/W and their is a big difference....the same difference that a backinflate VS. a Jacket is....I dive an Oceanic Excursion and its in every way as comfortable as BP/Ws I have dove and I like the simplicity and feel.....Plus I bought it and wore it...didnt have to set it up

Goodluck in your search and get what YOU like best and are comfortable with....alot of people when this debate comes up havent experienced all types of BCs and cant give you a full recommendation...and also alot of people are sick of this debate (no offense to you) and stay away from these threads.....

Mike

 

[Rick Murchison]

Here's a five year old post on the subject:

The BC question...
What kind of BC should I get? This question (or one of its variants) comes up over & over again.
So, instead of trying to claim one style is superior to another, I'll share my impressions and practices and conclusions from some 40 or so years of diving.
Of all the rigs I have used, I still own and use two jackets, one soft harness and two backplates and three wings. Why so many? Because there are so many dives, and my experience is that the BC that's optimal for one style of diving isn't necessarily optimal for another.
(1) For tropical recreational diving - warm water non-technical diving: My favorite BC is the Seaquest Explorer, a little tropical jacket that has about 15 pounds lift. It packs small, is very comfortable and has neutral stability in both pitch and roll with an aluminum 80. Neutral stability, like neutral buoyancy, means that the BC/tank combination does not tend to put you in any other position than the one you're in. If you're head up, or horizontal, or head down, or on one side or the other you stay there without kicking or sculling. This neutral lateral and longitudinal stability is particularly valuable to the open water sightseer or photographer, allowing the assumption of any position easily to look in that hole or to compose that perfect shot without having to use the reef as an anchor. Unfortunately the Explorer is discontinued, but there are other small tropical jackets available.
(2) For colder water recreational diving and for instructing open water: My favorite is the Seaquest Pro QD, a great big jacket with tremendous lift and superb surface floatation - a trait that comes in handy with the occasional less-than-calm student. This jacket also has excellent neutral lateral and longitudinal stability underwater.
(3) For big single tanks, or for working (other than instructing OW) dives, or big singles with stage or deco bottle, or anything with a "tech" component but with a single tank, my favorite is the Dive-Rite Transpac II with travel wing. This rig has positive stability - that is it tends to return you to the horizontal position if you're displaced. It is easy to get good longitudinal trim set, and it is sturdy, with real "D" rings for hanging stages etc. My transpac ends up being used more than any other rig.
(4) For light doubles (up to LP-85's or E7-100's) I use a Fred T heavy backplate and Dive-Rite Rec wing. This rig has adequate lift and I find the Rec wing slimmer and more streamlined than the Classic with the smaller tanks.
(5) For doubles larger than LP-85's I use a Dive-Rite aluminum BP and Dive-Rite Classic wing.
As you can see, my answer to the "what is the best BC?" question is largely dependent on the type diving you plan to do. If you're going to be a tropical photographer, I'd recommend a slim tropical jacket. Indeed, every top professional photographer I know of uses a jacket style BC for the easily attainable neutral longitudinal and lateral stability they provide.
If you're going caving, or very deep, or anywhere that gas supply trumps other things, a BP/Wing to suit the doubles you're using is the ticket.
Just as a note of interest, I have tried and do not like a BP/Wing with single tanks of any size. And while I find the Transpac to be acceptable for smaller doubles, I personally don't like it as well as a BP for doubles of any size.
Rick

And here's one from today from another thread on the subject, further explaining my aversion to a BP for single tanks for me:

The three principal issues for me are
(1) tank positioning - with a single tank, a BP, and especially a BP with a STA, positions the tank further off my back than a jacket. This is not true for doubles, where the BP channel is between the tanks. This makes it harder for my old arthritic arm to reach the tank valve on 7½ & 7¼ inch tanks, and damn near impossible with 8 inch tanks. That alone makes a BP unsat for me with single tanks.
(2) rear inflation - (a) while rear inflation helps achieve and maintain great longitudinal trim, the reason is because it has positive lateral and longitudinal stability (with aluminum tanks - with steel tanks no BC can completely overcome their "keel" effect). That is, a rear inflate BC tends to return you to the belly down horizontal position when displaced. That's a good thing if you want it, but if you're wanting neutral stability laterally and longitudinally, which I do, then a classic jacket is better at providing it. (b) on the surface, from a vertical position, especially with AL tanks, rear inflation tends to put you face down more than a classic jacket. Not a big deal for you if you're just diving as you can get back on your back and balance it so that staying face up is nearly effortless, but as an open water instructor who has to deal with students with problems from time to time, I want a BC that makes it easier for me to provide buoyancy assistance at arm's length in front of me, and that's a big jacket with a wrap-around bladder.
(3) Doodad handling - (this is a nit) when I'm recreating or instructing I like to carry doodads but I don't like to hang 'em on clips - I like having a couple of roomy pockets. I've tried several arrangements with my BP harnesses but haven't found a comfortable way yet to get that. I reckon I could always add pockets to my wetsuits like the ones on my drysuit, but (a) I'm too lazy and (b) whenever it's warm enough I like diving in just a bathing suit....
---
Let me add here that I do use BP/Wings, both heavy steel and aluminum, with doubles, and prefer them over a soft harness like the Transpac that's designed to handle doubles. But I am a "best tool for the job at hand" kind of guy, and I do not think a BP/W is the way to go for many recreational divers. It depends on what they want from their BC. For what I want, when I'm taking pictures of pretty fish, for example, I often choose a jacket.
Rick

Rick

 

[nereas]

Glad you pointed that out. I didnt know about bisquick either....

Since you live and dive in Hawaii, it is Matson Navigation that brings all your staples into the islands. Even all those nice bikinis on all those nice girls in your avatar! Bet you did not know that either.

 

[nereas]

Here's a five year old post on the subject:

And here's one from today from another thread on the subject, further explaining my aversion to a BP for single tanks for me:

Rick

I currently use a soft harness for world-wide scuba travel too, however when it wears out, I will simply go to an aluminum backplate for this. That way, I can weave my webbing through the aluminum plate in the same manner as for my heavy steel plate now. And that way I can dive the same configuration all the time everywhere.

Halcyon makes shoulder strap weight pouches that you can use to adjust your trim with an aluminum plate, so that your weight belt does not throw off your trim combined with with a lite plate in warm waters.

 

[DrownedRat]

A lot of talk about re-threading the harness for al and steel plates..
Just a thought, but webbing is about a buck a ft (most will only need about 12-15ft)
3 d-rings, couple bucks each
5 keepers, again a few bucks
1 small length of bungee, a few cents.

I just threaded up both plates and never have to worrie about switching or adjusting.
No fuss no muss

 

[mudhole]

Here's a five year old post on the subject:
And here's one from today from another thread on the subject, further explaining my aversion to a BP for single tanks for me:

a little tropical jacket that has about 15 pounds lift. It packs small, is very comfortable and has neutral stability in both pitch and roll with an aluminum 80. Neutral stability, like neutral buoyancy, means that the BC/tank combination does not tend to put you in any other position than the one you're in.

Well said Rick. . . I've used BP/W and back inflates, they're not what I choose for a fun or photo dive. They each work well for limited conditions, for experienced divers, not the ones that ask the question with only a few dives experience.

Inexperienced divers are the ones most likely to have trouble. The KISS principal is very important. Take the weight off the weight belt or integrated weights and put it in a steel BP, please not for beginners. A paniced diver is reluctant enought to drop a weight belt. . . tell them to ditch gear they're still paying for? Try to explain to a new diver the webbing to ditch a BP? Any diver with a few hundred dives doesn't want advice. . . be careful what you advise someone with less than 100 dives. I've pulled a few divers out of the water, and helped others that were panicing. I've dumped their weightbelt for them. Strapping small weights onto the webbing is fine for experience divers.

Rick, your quotes put in words better than I could. In a couple of years maybe I'll catch up, I got a late start diving in 1969. Competitive spearfishing before it was politically incorrect, Instructing before lawyers got too involved. . . now feeding my friends, taking pictures and teaching beyond the open water class.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Mud...I agree completely....Too many divers are newbies and taking advice from experienced divers and trying to follow their footsteps....Thats why I always encourage people, to not take what they read on forums such as this, as the RULE for diving...but as an example of how that specific experienced diver dives....Gotta love the internet and the armchairs

 

[nereas]

A lot of talk about re-threading the harness for al and steel plates..
Just a thought, but webbing is about a buck a ft (most will only need about 12-15ft)
3 d-rings, couple bucks each
5 keepers, again a few bucks
1 small length of bungee, a few cents.

I just threaded up both plates and never have to worrie about switching or adjusting.
No fuss no muss

You forgot that the wing costs several hundred euros/dollars as well. So you would need another one of those too, to do it your way.

It is easier and cheaper and less of a clutter just to keep an aluminum plate handy, and re-thread it with the webbing, D rings, keepers, buckle, and the wing from the steel plate, when you go on vacation to foreign lands.

 

[nereas]

Mud...I agree completely....Too many divers are newbies and taking advice from experienced divers and trying to follow their footsteps....Thats why I always encourage people, to not take what they read on forums such as this, as the RULE for diving...but as an example of how that specific experienced diver dives....Gotta love the internet and the armchairs

Advice was requested, and granted. That is how people learn.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Advice was requested, and granted. That is how people learn.

Exactly......dont forget experience....the best way to learn