work permits/freelance advice

[Quero]

What area are you planning on doing your IDC? Would be a good idea to look at what systems the local dive students are using at the moment to prevent you from spending what you might not have to. If you are thinking about Koh Tao you can contact me directly for local logistics and options. cwerger@hotmail.com

Craig, can you clarify what you mean by this? Are you saying that in certain areas a dive pro won't need to follow the system of setting up a company in order to get a work permit? Or are you saying that work permits are optional in some areas? As far as I know, work permit laws are uniform across the Kingdom of Thailand, so I'm wondering if dive operators on Tao are more likely to facilitate work permits for their staff than operators on Phuket, where the norm is a requirement that the dive pro have his/her own work permit as a freelancer.

 

[Quero]

It is DEFINITELY a requirement.

I have held work permits with large international companies in Bangkok (over 1500 employees), one mid to small size Thai company in Bangkok and also my own, fully owned my me, Thai company.

It is Thai law (or immigration policy, forgot which) that a (foreign) business must have a storefront and every foreign employee with a work permit must have a desk. This law is well known and every Thai company I know with foreign employees adheres to this law/policy.

If you are a foreigner and have a business in Thailand with a work permit, and don't have a desk for each foreign company in an office, you are technically breaking the law in Thailand.

If you don't believe me, just contact the legal folks at Sunbelt Asia and ask them

FRD, the way regulations play out apparently depends on the zoning laws where the business is registered. Here on Phuket, we have mixed residential and commercial zoning with maximum percentages for each type (as well as maximum building heights, maximum elevation for building sites, distance from high tide lines, etc.) People CAN register their businesses from their homes (or live in a shop house at their place of business) as well as work legally from their residences, as long as the business in question is approved for registration in the zone where it is located. For TAT registration, there is a requirement for photographs of the premises showing an office setting and signage at the entrance, and an officer may make a site visit, but for a company set up, as long as the authorities approve the address of the location of the business, stevenl is correct that there is no problem and no need to rent a phantom desk in a commercial office building. Zoning requirements would logically be different in Bangkok, just as height restrictions are obviously different.

 

[funrecdiver]

Hi Quero,

Thanks for correcting!

I am only speaking from experience in Bangkok and all the word permits I have held have been in Bangkok.

Sounds like things are easier in Phuket. If that is the case, I wonder if I can transfer my Bangkok company registration to your area? I have been wanting to "get rid of it" because of the "desk requirement" forced upon me in Bangkok.

 

[Quero]

Hi Quero,

Thanks for correcting!

I am only speaking from experience in Bangkok and all the word permits I have held have been in Bangkok.

Sounds like things are easier in Phuket. If that is the case, I wonder if I can transfer my Bangkok company registration to your area? I have been wanting to "get rid of it" because of the "desk requirement" forced upon me in Bangkok.

I have no idea, but if you like, I can put you in touch with my paralegal here who will be able to answer all of your questions. (She trained at one of the most respected law firms here that work with foreigners before opening her own consulting practice, and she always explains things so that even I "get it.") Or since you already seem to be a client of Sunbelt, you can consult their paralegals here, (IIRC they have an office in the Royal Phuket City Hotel).

 

[funrecdiver]

Thanks. I prefer someone else than Sunbelt. Had some "misinformation issues" with them in the past.

 

[limbo]

The way I understand it is that if you have a company in BKK you can set up a 'sub' office in Phuket and work in Phuket. You obviously need to have the correct work description in your WP in order to work as an instructor.

 

[limbo]

Craig, can you clarify what you mean by this? Are you saying that in certain areas a dive pro won't need to follow the system of setting up a company in order to get a work permit? Or are you saying that work permits are optional in some areas? As far as I know, work permit laws are uniform across the Kingdom of Thailand, so I'm wondering if dive operators on Tao are more likely to facilitate work permits for their staff than operators on Phuket, where the norm is a requirement that the dive pro have his/her own work permit as a freelancer.

Quero,

Let's say that Phuket has the most strict WP rules for the dive industry in all of Thailand.
As you know, each company can only issue a limited amount of WP's.

I leave it up to you to fill in the blanks but I would nonetheless like to hear Craig's opinion on this as well.

It's frustrating for some people who go through all the hoops and pay taxes and have expenses to set up a company and maintain it to see that some people do work illegally in the same field of work. Please go back to the first sentence of my response.

 

[Quero]

Quero,

Let's say that Phuket has the most strict WP rules for the dive industry in all of Thailand.
As you know, each company can only issue a limited amount of WP's.

I leave it up to you to fill in the blanks but I would nonetheless like to hear Craig's opinion on this as well.

It's frustrating for some people who go through all the hoops and pay taxes and have expenses to set up a company and maintain it to see that some people do work illegally in the same field of work. Please go back to the first sentence of my response.

Limbo, you have touched on the underlying issue, which is a question of whether dive businesses in different parts of the country comply with the laws or whether instead they flout them without fear of reprisals. I would be surprised to learn that the actual work permit laws vary from one province to the next, but I have certainly heard that enforcement of the regulations is stricter on Phuket than in other provinces.

I am personally agreeable to complying with the laws myself since I am not disposed to working illegally and I am willing to pay my fair share of taxes to support the infrastructure of the place I now call home. I do object to illegal dive industry workers--not because I chafe at paying taxes, but rather because I believe it's immoral for undocumented workers to take wages yet not contribute to paying for the public services which we all have at our disposal.

 

[limbo]

Limbo, you have touched on the underlying issue, which is a question of whether dive businesses in different parts of the country comply with the laws or whether instead they flout them without fear of reprisals. I would be surprised to learn that the actual work permit laws vary from one province to the next, but I have certainly heard that enforcement of the regulations is stricter on Phuket than in other provinces.

I am personally agreeable to complying with the laws myself since I am not disposed to working illegally and I am willing to pay my fair share of taxes to support the infrastructure of the place I now call home. I do object to illegal dive industry workers--not because I chafe at paying taxes, but rather because I believe it's immoral for undocumented workers to take wages yet not contribute to paying for the public services which we all have at our disposal.

Quero I fully agree with you and I can assure you that the the actual work permit laws are the same all over the country, however implementation and control of these laws vary wildly from province to province.

 

[Quero]

Quero I fully agree with you and I can assure you that the the actual work permit laws are the same all over the country, however implementation and control of these laws vary wildly from province to province.

Yes, I am aware that some businesses take advantage of the spotty enforcement in their regions to violate labour laws with impunity. However, I don't want to think that Craig might actually be recommending that dive professionals work illegally anywhere in the country, so I am hoping he will explain what he means. Perhaps he knows a way to work legally in Thailand (i.e., with a work permit) that doesn't require the dive pro to incur a lot of expense. I hope he will share this information publicly rather than only with the OP by way of private email. I honestly wouldn't imagine that anyone who includes in his signature the name of a well-known dive operator would recommend (even obliquely) that dive pros should work here without the proper legal documentation. In my opinion, doing so would reflect very badly on the operator's business ethics.