work permits/freelance advice

[lord khram]

I have certainly in the past on numerous occasions come been aware of people working in the dive industry without correct visas and work permits.
Yes it is illegal according to Thai law but it does go on.
Also you could maybe bring into question some of the methods used to obtain said visa's/permits.

 

[funrecdiver]

Agreed. I have seen many instructors in Thailand who are working here (illegally) on a tourist or ED visa making visa runs to the border. In fact, I think there are many because I have seen many who are making the standard "run to the border" on a tourist or ED visa.

 

[red_barbarian]

I see it all the time when I'm diving in the Pattaya area. (Instructors making visa runs on tourist or Edu visas). Since I'm only diving for fun I just listen. My impression in Koh Phi Phi and Koh Chang was a great many dive "pros" were doing the same thing. If someone has a recommendation for visa legal services this would be a good place to post it. The Thai Visa forum seems to be run by the folks from Sunbelt.

 

[funrecdiver]

The main problem, as I have seen it in business here before, is the Thai requirement that there must be 6 Thai workers (yes, I recall the ratio as 6 to 1) for every one foreign work permit. The exception is when you are the sole managing director of your own company. Even, then there would need to be 6 Thai employees (full time) to get a work permit issued for the second foreign instructor. If there were 2 additional foreign instructors plus the foreign managing director, then I am pretty sure that their must be 12 Thai workers on the payroll.

Also, I don't think the laws vary from province to province in Thailand; what varies, from what I have seen, is the "under the table" influence by Thai agents who have "friends" who work for the government, and as we all know, the game changes when you have an "agent" as a go between who has a connection, friend, family member, etc.

I have seen work permit applications from three companies and all were the same, basically, and all had to show the business (photos) and provide details of the company finances, number of Thai employees (on the social security roster), etc. The (correct) paperwork is very extensive.

I have had three different Thai work permits (before I stopped working completely before doing my "retirement" visas) and the process was just about the same each time.

On the other hand, I don't want to get up on a soap box and judge others and their integrity based on how they operate in Thailand with regards to immigration and work permits. Let's just be clear that most dive centers have people "studying" on ED (and sometimes tourist) visas and, from a Thai legal perspective, they should not be working, but in practice, I don't see that it stops many people, as RB said above.

If all the foreign scuba instructors in Thailand stopped teaching that did not have a proper work permit, I would guess the number of instructors would be dramatically smaller, with the exception of the 'student-instructors' who are "assisting" as a part of their overall "education".

 

[limbo]

Yes, I am aware that some businesses take advantage of the spotty enforcement in their regions to violate labour laws with impunity. However, I don't want to think that Craig might actually be recommending that dive professionals work illegally anywhere in the country, so I am hoping he will explain what he means. Perhaps he knows a way to work legally in Thailand (i.e., with a work permit) that doesn't require the dive pro to incur a lot of expense. I hope he will share this information publicly rather than only with the OP by way of private email. I honestly wouldn't imagine that anyone who includes in his signature the name of a well-known dive operator would recommend (even obliquely) that dive pros should work here without the proper legal documentation. In my opinion, doing so would reflect very badly on the operator's business ethics.

Couldn't have said it better!

 

[penguintom]

I was actually diving on a Patttaya boat last year and the instructor seemingly very proud of what he was doing informed the customers that he was doing fortnightly runs to cambodia for his tourist stamp.
Seems very strange he would be telling everyone if it is illegal.

 

[stevenl]

The main problem, as I have seen it in business here before, is the Thai requirement that there must be 6 Thai workers (yes, I recall the ratio as 6 to 1) for every one foreign work permit. The exception is when you are the sole managing director of your own company. Even, then there would need to be 6 Thai employees (full time) to get a work permit issued for the second foreign instructor. If there were 2 additional foreign instructors plus the foreign managing director, then I am pretty sure that their must be 12 Thai workers on the payroll.

Also, I don't think the laws vary from province to province in Thailand; what varies, from what I have seen, is the "under the table" influence by Thai agents who have "friends" who work for the government, and as we all know, the game changes when you have an "agent" as a go between who has a connection, friend, family member, etc.

I have seen work permit applications from three companies and all were the same, basically, and all had to show the business (photos) and provide details of the company finances, number of Thai employees (on the social security roster), etc. The (correct) paperwork is very extensive.

I have had three different Thai work permits (before I stopped working completely before doing my "retirement" visas) and the process was just about the same each time.

On the other hand, I don't want to get up on a soap box and judge others and their integrity based on how they operate in Thailand with regards to immigration and work permits. Let's just be clear that most dive centers have people "studying" on ED (and sometimes tourist) visas and, from a Thai legal perspective, they should not be working, but in practice, I don't see that it stops many people, as RB said above.

If all the foreign scuba instructors in Thailand stopped teaching that did not have a proper work permit, I would guess the number of instructors would be dramatically smaller, with the exception of the 'student-instructors' who are "assisting" as a part of their overall "education".

Here on Phuket the vast majority does have a workpermit. The standard for thais-foreigners is 4:1, but for the companies we're talking about here, companies specifically set up to work legally with wp, no other activities, that is not required.

 

[Phuket diver]

Hi,

To set up your company and work permit will cost you about 60000 baht, at the end of every month you will have to pay taxes, taxes will be depending on how much you declare on your work permit

If you will make enough money to stay in Phuket, it's completely depending on you, if you wait for students to come to you...not, if you are active....yes

Good luck with your project, and if you need any contact to set up your company and work permit, please don't hesitate to ask me.

Take care of you

 

[DevonDiver]

I'd say that the majority of dive pros in Koh Tao were on tourist or Ed visas. I was only aware of dive shop managers/owners and a few long-time Tao instructors actually having work visas. Very few freelance instructors had them.

You can legitimately get a multi-entry 12 month educational visa if you will be studying as DMT or on an IDC . That will also cover you for an extended MSDT internship. However, that should prevent you for having paid work/salary/commission.... in which case, you would legally need a work permit.

In the time I was on Tao, I never saw Thai immigration cause any problem for the 'illegal' instructors. They would come to the island occasionally, but were only interested in catching and deporting the illegal Burmese workers. Tao is pretty much 'sewn up' by the powerful families that own all the land there...and most of the scuba businesses.

 

[gubbins]

Can't people get away with one of the Non-Imm B visas (12 month, multi-entry, so visa runs every 12 weeks)? They're quiet common for new arrivals in BKK during their first couple of years working.