Would you let a near death experience stop you? My encounter

[Walter]

Not sure what other info you guys would like

Just how to avoid your instructor.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not sure what other info you guys would like

What have you learned from the incident?

Have you talked about it with your instructor? Have you shared with him some of the comments you've received in this and the other discussion on the incident?

If he's half the instructor you believe him to be he'll be open to discussing why he did what he did, and how he'd do it differently ... and more safely ... the next time something like that happens.

Both of you need to learn something from the incident. Don't just chalk it up to miscommunication (there was more to it than that) or inexperience ... or the next time it could end up with far more tragic conclusions ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Cave Diver]

Anyone here come to a close call like this and feel Ok about getting back into the water? I love diving and all, but my brother in law drowned like 2 weeks ago and I saw his face the whole way up thinking this was it. its all over. Im still somewhat yooung and I know my wife doesnt like me diving at all let alone after I told her this.
How would you all handle this?

First off, condolences on your loss. Secondly, congratulations on not being a drowning victim yourself.

Third, well third is gonna be a bit longer...

To answer your original question no, I would not let the experience stop me. I WOULD however take a long, hard, serious look at what happened, what could have happened and what SHOULD have happened before I got back in the water again.

Well I was finishing up my AOW dives on Sunday. Nothing really crazy, I think we planned on like a 90ft dive in this quarry. The water was colder then the previous days it felt, but nothing unexpected.
We did our decent close to a pier and just kept close to that on the decent.
We were going down and the instructor was helping this train wreck of a lady in our class. I got away from here so I didnt get tangled up.

Here is the first problem. If this lady is such a trainwreck, why is the instructor allowing her to dive? 90ft of cold water is NOT the place to be straightening out basic issues. If she is having problems, the instructor should be working with her to straighten those issues out, not allowing her to pursue an AOW course.

Moving away to avoid entanglement was a good choice in theory, but in practice it may have placed you further away from help...

So I noticed my primary reg started to free flow at about 70ft. Likely due to the water temps. So I messed with it and showed my instructor. I got the craps of it and dropped it and grabbed my back up. . .. rather then my Pony.. . This is where the problem started.
I showed my instructor the problem and grabbed for my back up off my 1st stage since it was breathing correctly for the time being.

There is an old saying: "Good judgement comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgement."

Your problem did not start at 70'. It started pre-dive.

Did the instructor briefing include information about cold water temps?
Did it include the possibility of regulator free flow because of the temps?
Did it include methods of dealing with free flow?
Did it include inspection of your equipment to ensure it was adequate for the dive?

If the answer to any of these questions is "No" then I feel the instructor failed to do his job.

Moving on to the free flow itself. If the flow was caused by icing/freezing of the first stage, going to your backup is not going to help. It will end up free flowing as well.

If it was a problem with the second stage brought on by temperature, again your backup will likely not be much help. My reasoning behind this statement is that *most* recreational divers use a "lower quality" reg as their backup than their primary, so if your primary cant handle the temps...

At this point if I can't stop the free flow, my reaction would be control the situation and call the dive. You were taught how to breathe off of a free-flowing reg during your BOW class right? So it should have been no problem to make a controlled ascent. If it is, then perhaps some work on remedial skills is in order. Another option would have been to "pinch" your hose shut (think of bending a garden hose to stop the flow of water) to control the free flow.

Knowing what your options and making a choice between them goes a long way towards controlling panic.

I showed my instructor the problem and grabbed for my back up off my 1st stage since it was breathing correctly for the time being.
He went behind me I was assuming to shut my tank off for a sec and to put it back on to see if that helped the free flow. He apparently thought I had my pony in my mouth.
I didnt feel the air go off, so I figured he was looking for something else.
All the sudden on my next inhale I felt no air. To say the least I freaked out cuz I was at full exhale.

Ok, so now he leaves his trainwreck student to shut your air off, without ensuring you have an alternate air source, and in the process sends you into a full fledged panic. So now there is the possibility that he has lost control of TWO students.

I went to find my pony reg, but with all the new gear on and panicking it made it harder to get.

A 90' cold water dive is NOT the place to be learning new gear. Any time I've taken classes where we are using new equipment or skills, we spend time learning and practicing either in a pool or confined open water. When we do the dives for real, we are comfy with our skills and our gear.

I then grabbed onto the instructor for dear life trying to find his pony reg. He said I had it in my hand and he was trying to get it in my mouth, but I was already well beyond panic mode and swallowed a bunch of mid 40 degree water.
Instead of wrapping him up more, my last ditch effort was to get to the surface and deal with the consequences if I made it.
So I did all I could to see light. I shot up swallowing air and gasping the whole way. i didnt see we were actually under the pier at that point and I bounced my head off one of the beams on the way up. As I hit it I thought I was gone for sure. Figured all my stuff would get tangled and that was it.
Somehow I bounced off it and managed to just barely hit the surface before I passed out.
I popped out under the pier and was hyper ventilating gasping for air. My instructor was holding onto me the whole time trying to get me to hold onto the pier and get me to calm down.
I apparently broke my inflator hose on the way up too. so my BC wasnt holding air. Thank got for those beams on hold onto even though my head hurts.

We ended the dive day for obvious reasons. My instructor checked me out and comforted me. He said not to let it get to me, it happens and will help me realize what not to do for next time.

Sounds to me like you were damned lucky. And I still have to wonder what happened to the "trainwreck lady."

The instructor telling you "It happens" sounds like a brush off. It *SHOULDNT* happen. Plan your dive, dive your plan, include contingencies and practice skills and drills. A minor equipment issue should not escalate into a major catastrophe or near fatality.

I am fine, but still freaked out thinking about getting back in the water. I dunno if my life is worth it. I think that if I wouldnt have been near the pier to grab onto and hyper ventilating with the hole in my BC now too, I would have sunk back down and drown before catching my breath if open water.
Just plain scary.

For next time I deff know to make my Pony reg closer to me then my backup reg. That is the main lesson.

I really hope, for your sake, that after reading some of the responses here that "keep my pony reg closer" is not the main lesson you learned.

There is a saying we use: "You don't know what you don't know and what you don't know can kill you."

No one wants to see you get killed or injured, hopefully something constructive can come from the comments that have been made.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Not your fault, but not only are you not ready to be diving deep, you aren't ready to be in open water at all. You are in serious need of basic entry level skills. If you can't find all your second stages by feel, you're not ready to be out of the pool. If you can't put a regulator in your mouth that is in your hand, you aren't ready to be out of the pool. I'm not too sure your instructor is ready to be out of the pool either.

I completely agree.
You are not comfortable in the water. Sounds like a good case of "too far, too fast" as well. (aow, wreck deep limited vis etc)

 

[Scram Bulleggs]

"Another option would have been to "pinch" your hose shut (think of bending a garden hose to stop the flow of water) to control the free flow"

Does this work? I think if it does this would be a nice fast way to deal with the problem. Seems like it would take the least amount of thought and get you back to teh surface.

 

[Cave Diver]

"Another option would have been to "pinch" your hose shut (think of bending a garden hose to stop the flow of water) to control the free flow"

Does this work? I think if it does this would be a nice fast way to deal with the problem. Seems like it would take the least amount of thought and get you back to teh surface.

Yes it does. I've tested various "scenarios" based on some of the wild claims I've heard from people for dealing with "emergencies."

One of my favorites is the old "if my reg failed and quit delivering gas, I could just take the first stage off the tank and breath straight from the valve." If the reg fails and won't deliver air, how are you going to bleed the pressure off in order to release the first stage from the tank???

Also, a cut or burst low pressure hose will generally drain a tank much quicker than a failed HP hose...

 

[DivingCRNA]

One of the best things I learned in the Cavern Course was doing S-Drills and knowing your gear by touch. These things would have made your free flow an inconvenience rather than a full blown emergency.

BTW-a 7 foot hose is now in my standard configuration because of ease of deployment and air sharing.

 

[josh]

Also, he mentioned that he couldn't find his pony reg but his instructor said it was already in his hand--

Yes, but the instructor should have ensured it was in the OP's *mouth* before going any where near the tank valve.

Up until the Instructor turned off the valve on the tank, the free flow was an inconvenience. The diver had a pony bottle, the instructor had an alternate. It was the start of a dive. There was more than enough air around. The failure was to ensure the diver was getting any.

The areas that give cause for concern were why did the Instructor see turning off the tank as the *first* priority -over an above ensuring the diver was breathing properly? Why did the instructor need to go *behind* the diver to turn off the tank, breaking contact with that diver?

If a diver does have a problem, the last place you want to be is *behind* the diver!!

But instead of unequivocally laying the smack down on this guy who isn't even around to defend himself, maybe we should reserve some of our wrath in the (imho exteremely likely) situation that we don't know the whole story here?

[/QUOTE]


Whatever is not known, there is enough to know there are areas of concern. I am still not clear what diver the diver was doing - deep? wreck? nav? S&R? Why the lift bag? why the reel? Why is a diver loaded with stuff they are unfamiliar with, or even loaded with stuff that is not needed on that dive?

So, it seems that the Instructor is taking down *two* students, one of whom is a "train wreck" (and presumably similarly laden with unfamiliar equipment) and, as has been said, loses control over both students.

To the OP, we all tend to hold our Instructors in high esteem, and its sometimes difficult to admit that even they make mistakes. However "nice" a guy your Instructor is, I would recommend you really, really think about whether you should be in the water with him again. You had a nasty experience, and one that could have had much more severe consequences. It might benefit you to go with another Instructor on a few less challenging dives to regain some of your confidence.
-j-
PS: what *did* happen to the "train wreck" diver??

 

[islandguy]

I never experienced a free flow, but can't you still breath from your regulator in a free flow???

 

[Web Monkey]

I never experienced a free flow, but can't you still breath from your regulator in a free flow???

Yes. It breathes just fine.

The only difference is that there are a lot of bubbles and the tank will be empty in less than a couple of minutes, depending on the size and how full it was.


Terry