would you put a inexperienced diver on this dive

[bowlofpetunias]

scubafanatic... I'm with you on that! All you can do is try but sometimes you just can't protect people from themselves.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

halemanō,

I will try to answer your questions 1. I,m sorry if i missed your question or ignored what you wanted to know
2.The diver is finishing his aow this weekend and passed his no dive nitrox class .The so called deep dive he will make on dive 4 or 5 of aow will be in 65 ffw max since where he is taking aow this is the max depth of quarry.The dive he will be doing for #2 deep dive will be 134'

There are still many so far unanswered questions but I will work with what I get; so in your original post of this thread you say the diver in question "has not made any dives since there checkout dive but are going to do a dive with strong currents and to a mod of 134' in the atlantic with 1/2 of there equipment being new to them with 0 dives on this equipment" but now you are saying the diver is finishing AOW this weekend, before the deep Atlantic dive and presumably using the new gear. Considering your description of the OW check out dives I also presume Peak Performance Buoyancy was one of the AOW dives. :shocked2:

You still seem to be fixating on the 134' hard bottom, which does not mean the dive will be to 134'. My AOW Deep Dive was to the deck of the USCGC Duane off Key Largo, with my max depth of 108' on the main deck for my dive, but a hard bottom of over 120' and a plan to not go deeper than the main deck. I would think that since these are all PADI courses the planned max depth is 111' or less if they are using 32%.

I'm with Thal on the Nitrox; if you are only doing a couple 2-tank days why act like you are 5-tank a day live-a-boarding? My EANx training was culminated by becoming an IANTD Advanced Nitrox instructor which at that time followed the NOAA 1.6 max for working portions of the dive and 1.8 for non-working portions; Mr Rutkowski knows I am an avid photographer and he had no lawyer advising him not to say things like "gently sneaking up to 1.8 for a photograph seems reasonable but chasing to 1.8 for a photo is not reasonable."

question for you : In your post are you saying you would take this diver on this dive with all the issues he has had and still having and with the amount of diver that get hurt or dead diving beyond their abilities?

thanks,
Vince

Since these are ongoing training dives, with an Instructor, I do not presume with limited info over the internet to say the Instructor is not properly instructing this student. What are the death &/or injury statistics for divers with OW, AOW and Nitrox certs during their Deep Specialty training dives?

 

[flots am]

My EANx training was culminated by becoming an IANTD Advanced Nitrox instructor which at that time followed the NOAA 1.6 max for working portions of the dive and 1.8 for non-working portions; Mr Rutkowski knows I am an avid photographer and he had no lawyer advising him not to say things like "gently sneaking up to 1.8 for a photograph seems reasonable but chasing to 1.8 for a photo is not reasonable."

Are you saying that Mr Rutkowski said you would be just fine @ 1.8, or that he didn't say it, or that he didn't say anything?

Flots.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Mr. Rutkowski taught me to follow my training and my common sense. I am lucky to have had 2 months of nearly daily interaction with Dick and one of my finest moments was when that "Old guy said I'd be OK."

 

[Tigerman]

Consider this,you have a new diver who has just certified in ow and going for there aow and had major trouble in there checkout dives with clearing(nose bleeding,dizziness,ear pain) and some buoyancy control issues. This diver has not made any dives since there checkout dive but are going to do a dive with strong currents and to a mod of 134' in the atlantic with 1/2 of there equipment being new to them with 0 dives on this equipment. Personally i like this diver and would hate to see them get into trouble .I mentioned some of the conditions and possible issues where as they could get separated from the dm and or the instructor (visibility can go away quickly on this wreck site)and be on their own. They have never used or shot a smb and did not know what a finger spool was for etc. Am i wrong for thinking this is to much to soon ?

From your brief description, I would agree its too much too soon yeah. Ive been buddied with someone that was in a bit deeper than he shoulda been and it was a short dive he didnt enjoy much and he ended up feeling bad for messing up the dive for me and another guy who surfaced with him. Personally i was a bit let down by the dive not really going to plan, but at the same time that kinda dives is a good learning experience as long as they end well for all the divers. Its not something Ill recommend to do if you know or have a feeling its not going to be a fun and manageable dive for all the divers though.

 

[skuba_girl]

("that this will be no big deal trust me i won,t let anything go wrong". ) gets alot of folks hurt/killed. Kind of like a kid with a learners permit being put behind the wheel of a GT500 in rush hour traffic in the rain.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Back in the day certification meant you were trained to dive down to 130' and nowadays people whine about how the initial cert is not close to the old initial cert and yet here when someone tries to get all the training right away kind of like the old days, they are going too fast?

 

[bowlofpetunias]

You can have people who are competent and confident in the water who can certainly take an accelerated pace. I do not believe that the number of certificates on the wall or the number of dives in your log book determine how good a diver you are. It is your skill in the water! What is sounding alarm bells for me is the diver in question (if you believe the OP and I see no reason to doubt him) has medical issues.

The difficulty clearing, bleeding nose, dizziness, ear pain all need to be dealt with BEFORE a dive to this depth. The buoyancy issues are also a concern. I am concerned that this may be a diver who doesn't know what he doesn't know. We all do trust me dives in the beginning whether we like to admit it or not the first dive you do on your course is a trust me dive after all! Most people get away with it because they trusted the right person or in many cases pure blind dumb luck!

 

[Thalassamania]

Who the "F" is this Mr. Rutkowsk? Y'all mean Hyperdick?

I provide ALL the training, right away, just like in the old days. But as a single integrated unit that has half a century of proven efficacy. There are others who did not learn to make the work back in the bad old days and thing that all the have to do is slap a series of modular courses together back to front and that that will accomplish the same thing. I hate to tell you ... it doesn't work that way. And as far as depth is concerned. Someone who partakes of all the training, right away, will not see 130 feet on a non-training dive until they've at least 48 training dives, beyond their initial entry training.

 

[flots am]

Mr. Rutkowski taught me to follow my training and my common sense. I am lucky to have had 2 months of nearly daily interaction with Dick and one of my finest moments was when that "Old guy said I'd be OK."

I'd be careful about giving too much weight to old guys telling you "You'll be OK"

Every time an old guy has told me something was dangerous, they've been correct. The track record in the other direction, not so much.

Flots.