Wow... Is this Common?

[NudeDiver]

I believe most of the comments about the ethics of taking up the LDS's time and buying elsewhere were...

But this is such a false argument. So - what, consumers are not supposed to comparison shop, and then take the best deal? Is that the new "bailout" capitalism we're coming to??

If vendors want to make sure they get paid for their pre-sales time, then they need to break out their business into consulting and sales. Refuse to talk to consumers unless they want to buy some consulting time - collect that cash - and then send them over to the sales department to see what kind of deal they can get. That way, even if they buy elsewhere, you've collected some money from them.

See how long that lasts.

 

[frontierdiver]

glad you were able to reach a positive resolution, albeit through a painful process. I can understand where the owner is coming from as I know we've had students come into the dive shop I work at and we've totally been there for them in every way (gave them great deals on certification, extra dives, and on mask/snorkel/fins) only to find out they went and got their bcds and regs online b/c they were cheaper. The owners of the shop felt kind of betrayed after bending over backwards to give great customer service and great pricing to these guys. On top of that, the students didn't even give the shop an opportunity to match the online price or come close so that was frustrating. And there wasn't a history of overcharging to make the students feel like they couldn't get a good deal from us, whereas you at least had that as justification for going elsewhere.

Bottom line though, if the owner is interested in keeping your business, he should definitely acknowledge that you did what you had to do in the interest of saving money but that doesn't mean you are not still a valuable customer. In today's economy, he should take what he can get and be thankful. Maybe even work a little harder to get your business in the future?

 

[emmaboo]

I just wanted to say thanks for all the input and helpful advice that has been given! I was overwhelmed at the response to this thread and thoroughly enjoyed reading everyones different view on my situation. I'd like to say I'm a little better prepared on what to expect from a "good" LDS and what to stay away from.

Thanks again and happy diving!

 

[NudeDiver]

On top of that, the students didn't even give the shop an opportunity to match the online price or come close so that was frustrating.

Given the attitudes of dive shops as represented on here and elsewhere, who can blame them? No one wants to go into a store, prepared to spend a lot of money, and then get a lecture about shopping on-line and wanting a competitive deal.

If I were a newbie, not knowing anything, and then reading all the LDS-online conflict stories people on here are telling, can you really blame them for wanting to avoid such a conflict?

I for one, bought my regs and BCD through the shop I certified with, just before the class. Why? Because I felt guilty about the idea of showing up with stuff I bought somewhere else. And you know what? I overpaid. By a lot. I would have saved AT LEAST $400 by buying on-line. I was foolish. Never again.

 

[Scuba Ken]

I'm not in the dive equipment business, but I do work in an area with lots of competition. Our business model is to be very straight forward with our customers and friendly. We know there are people who charge less for our services. We know our customers do as well. These LDS's can't assume that the customer is an idiot and has not done there research. With the internet most consumers are very well educated on the product they wish to buy before they walk in a store.

As business people you need to accept this and and not tip toe around the subject with the customer. Let the customer know what you charge - Let them know you know what your competition charges then give them a good solid reason to get the item from you. Leisure Pro and other online dealers give good prices by getting around the price fixing (call it what it is) by many dive manufacturers. Dive shops can't lower there prices without possibly getting their dealerships pulled. LDS's should be more pissed off about that then the fact customers what to shop around. This is what limits their ability to compete. The best bargains from online retailers come from products that are not allowed to be sold on the internet. Aqualung, Apeks, Scubapro etc. However, companies like Oceanic that do allow it you don't see a very big difference between the pricing on the internet and what a good LDS charges.

But there are ways around this. There are lots of value added services a shop can add to make there prices competitive with the online retailers that only an Brick and Mortar shop can offer that goes beyond advice and support. Lets be honest there are many online shops that have great sales people who dive and know the gear inside and out and also have great service. So that is not a great selling point for the LDS anymore. They just need to be creative.

For Example: LDS has a reg for $500 MSRP with full warranty. An online retailer has it for $250. Let's say the LDS can't sell the reg for more than a 10 percent discount without getting in trouble with the manufacturer. How can the LDS compete? How about throwing in some extras like a reg bag, or a dive trip with the shop to test out the new regs, or even free air fills worth the difference.

If the dive shop can offer something that keeps the diver coming back in, that increases the odds the diver will spend more there. Suddenly a $500 reg with $200 air fill card included and a full warranty looks very competitive to that online reg. Plus you have that customer coming in to the shop another 20ish times. Throw in some friendly service and you got happy customers in on a regular basis. How much profit from the reg would the shop really lose on the air fills? If you throw in a free local Dive trip, you get that customer diving. Active divers spend more money. If they have a great time on the trip, they'll likely be back booking classes and more dive trips with you. The more a diver dives the more gear wears out and needs to be serviced and replaced which means more income potential. In my opinion Dive shops need to keep there customers diving and in the shop as much as possible. Maybe sponsor a dive club offer there class rooms for meetings etc.

Anyway just some ideas I had.

 

[NudeDiver]

Ken has the right idea.

 

[tom_n_tacoma]

Good topic and one that generates lots of conversations where I'm at. I don't think the shop owner should be treating a potential customer like that. Even though you got the gear online, you still may decide to take classes in his shop, have gear serviced, or buy other equipment. The way I see it, someone treats me poorly like that, I take my business down the road.

Scuba gear is expensive, no two ways about it. I'm asked by students all the time about buying stuff online vs. in a store. I tell them that if the online store isn't an authorized dealer you might not have any warranty or service on your equipment. I try to help them make informed and safety conscious decisions. People show up in the shop and say "hey, I bought this used reg on ebay, how much to service it" Typically it ends up costing more for the reg and the service to make it safe to dive than it would have to buy a new one. I typical tell my students that buying that dry suit used on Craigslist might be an OK deal, but if I didn't know what I was looking at in a regulator, I'd be looking for a new one from somewhere reputable.

In the end, I'm a consumer like just about everyone else. So, I'm always looking for a deal myself and understand those that are doing the same. Just make sure it is a "good deal".

If there is another shop in your area, I'd go talk to them.

Good luck!

 

[HomelessDiver]

My first set of regs was local and thru LDS affiliate at a local supplier on the island. oooops, on my part. I still have trouble blaming him because he became my close friend long before I realized what had happened.

Over $1000 USD of gear at 5% (his discount). I thought, cool, thanks!

Found out later his cut was 40% and for some reason, I brainfarted and didnt notice it was the most exp regs in stock at the time. Never again. I go under my own and get my own lessor (20) discount these days (non inst).

 

[HomelessDiver]

But I do have a nice shiny mk25 with g250/r190 that works like a charm.

 

[frogman159]

If all of the local dive shops manage to go out of business (unlikely, since new ones seem to keep opening here), then you can bet good money that SOMEONE will open an air fill station - even if it is operating out of their garage.

On a weekend in the summer, at the local dive spots, you can spot no less than 10 or more guys DUI drysuits, doubles, wireless computers...I've even seen a couple guys in goggles with a heads-up display. These guys dropped some SERIOUS cash on that type of gear- if the LDSs closed I doubt it would be hard to get them to all kick in a couple hundred bucks to buy a compressor.

All it would take is one guy with some leadership skills to organize it