Wow... Is this Common?

[ScubaSteve]

The only way to stop online throat cutting would be for the manufacturers or distributors to enact a price protection policy and if any online retailer tries to undercut the LDS they get the ax and the manufacurer stops selling to them. But the online business is huge and no manufacturer will ever do that, so here we are back to square one.

I do not see internet selling as throat cutting.....if they are able to make money at it and the consumer is getting the product they want without unknowingly sacraficing something (warranty etc.), then IMO the LDS is the one making the mistake. And cutting the supply to the companies that are trying to provide good product at competitive costs does nothing for the consumer. Granted in some cases there is the warranty issue but not all internet sellers are doing it against the manufacturer's interest. For everybody to "fix" the price (which is essentially what they would be doing it they removed the lower cost sellers) just costs the customer extra money and in the end either pushed sales dollars elsewhere or maybe even prevents people from buying altogether.

 

[Dance4God]

My LDS will try VERY hard to match the price we find online except for LP products because you are not paying for the warranty with those products. Also, if we find something they don't carry, they will order it, no deposit, for us to check out. We have spent probably at least $5k or more at the shop and they know we will ALWAYS go to them first. Also, if we buy from them and have a problem, we just have to bring it back and they will fix it. My husband finally found this out after trying to order something off the internet and having nothing but problems because the website was getting bought out by someone else so they stopped keeping records of their sales! Now he goes to our LDS first! Sorry your LDS isn't as accomodating...they would have more business and more loyal customers if they did...

 

[String]

Ok this has been said numerous times: If there is the demand for air fills, then a local shop will exist to meet the demand. That is how markets work!

As is the case here where most dive shops sell air, some training and only small bits of kit a diver might need. Low cost stuff such as straps, clips, gloves, boltsnaps etc.

These shops are far from struggling.

If there's a market for air people will supply air.

These shops have realised they cant compete with online for kit so they dont try to - they restructure their business into one that CAN compete and they're doing fine.

Only the dinosaurs that refuse to admit the internet exists and refuse to embrace the modern world will die. And they deserve to.

 

[Jumpinjim]

Has anyone taken a look at the number of people who certify and then no longer dive? It is bad for the sport when half of the people do not continue. And all though there can be a million reasons why, the fact of the matter is if customers do not feel welcome, comfortable with dealing with people in the sport or unwanted, they will not come back. And guess how much the LDS will get out of a non repeat customer. Wake up and smell the coffee. If it is such an imposition for the LDS to give advice, be competitive and build rapport with it's customers than get out of the business, they are bad for the sport anyway.

 

[Redhawk]

Our LDS has done the whole added value approach. They encourage people to become club members ($40 p/a), for this you get preferencial pricing, free use of the facility & rental gear at the dive pool (5m with cave etc), free gear rental & fills on club trips (local dive sites) etc. They also organise a monthly club trip to a coastal dive site (we are 450 miles from the coast) for which you pay seperately (I can't do this trip for any cheaper under own steam & I know they get a 10-15% commision on the trip from the operater). I have been buying gear for 4 people (all certified at the same course) so cost is an important factor. A large portion of our gear was bought at this LDS but some was sourced elsewhere (including used), everytime I buy a used reg etc. I take it to my LDS, they service it & we go dive together! Net result through good service I end up paying a little more for some items but not always, continue to dive & will train further (3 of us ultimately want to go all the way to instructor level) with this LDS. I don't always have to drop top $ here & the LDS doesn't hold it against us (or anyone else) if we don't, hence the fact that the club has in excess of 2000 members, so I'm not alone in feeling this way.

PS: I've got over 2 dozen LDS's within a 25 mile radius so I have got options & do utilise them!

 

[NudeDiver]

My LDS will try VERY hard to match the price we find online except for LP products because you are not paying for the warranty with those products.

LP matches manufacturer's warranty on products with its own warranty. So just because you don't get the manufacturer's warranty does not mean you're not paying for warranty.

 

[k ellis]

Well this is more of a venting thread but I would love to hear if this sport really is this dramatic... I posted some time ago about purchasing equipment from my LDS as opposed to online. The price difference was incredible, I paid a quarter what he was asking for the equipment. So I took the plunge and bought a BC, regs and dive comp online. I haven't even used them but it has taken me about 2 months to tell the owner of the LDS that I have this equipment... Keep in mind I have been certified with this gentlemen, rented gear for the dives at the lake, bought way overpriced fins, mask, boots, gloves and a few other small gadgets. I finally decided that I needed to have a chat with him about the equipment to ensure it would be ok when yearly servicing would be required etc. The meeting was ANYTHING but pleasant... He at first completely refused to deal with any equipment not bought at his store and that his customers come first. I was upset to say the least. He did not acknowledge me as a customer and honestly made me feel like S*** for not purchasing a few pieces of equipment from him. He told me to go to the person I bought it from and get them to deal with it (if it's a manufactor repair I agree) but if it was just for servicing?? I was very upset about the way he reacted and if he didn't "change his mind" on the matter I would have walked out and never turned back. The problem is that I don't have an option to go to another LDS as I have the equipment and to take it back is no longer possible. He is the only LDS in the city to guarantee the warranty of the equipment with his signature on a yearly basis...

I'm just curious if this is a common occurance? Although I understand that these LDS depend on their students to purchase equipment from them they are not a charity. I found a deal elsewhere (significantly less!) and I jumped on it. This experience really sours my outlook on the sport.... It's unfortunate because it's rubbed off on my spouse and he now refuses to get certified until we can find a different LDS where he feels comfortable.
I suppose any future purchases are expected to be done at the shop... or I think I may have to find a new LDS

Well I guess I will just speak of my personal experience. My LDS is an awesome shop and I have had the opportunity to sit and talk with the owner on many occasions. He is quick to recommend you buy from him and he is even man enough to admit some products are hard for him to compete with the price just because online dealers buy in such a large volume they get deeper discounts. But with all the talk with him about going with him versus an online dealer he has some pretty valid points. When I purchase from him its a product he is familiar with and can guarantee the quality and workmanship of the product he sales. He even stands behind it with dedication I admire. I have purchased both from him and from online.

I have brought a tank in to him and am currently having him service my regulator I purchased else where. While I know I pay some times a little more for the same product from him I always feel like I am getting guarantee in 2 forms. First its from his standing behind what he sales and my knowing I am actually helping him stay in buisness.

Point of all this is while he gets discouraged or it may seem he does, He always welcomes a sale with a smile and service to anything within reason that he can service. Also admireable is the fact that I tease him he would sale any thing for a dollar the seriousness is he tells you his honest opinion and sales only what he feels to be quality products. If he doesnt feel its a good item to sale he wont sale it.

 

[oly5050user]

The problem is that I don't have an option to go to another LDS as I have the equipment and to take it back is no longer possible. He is the only LDS in the city to guarantee the warranty of the equipment with his signature on a yearly basis...

Depending on what item you purchased and fom whom there may be NO manufacturer warranty of your equipment. You have to send it to where you purchased item. Go to manufacturers web site and see if the place you purchased from is an authorized dealer.
If unauthorized then for your LDS to work on it can be viewed by him as a liability issue.At the LDS I teach out of if someone comes in with a equipment issue and it is under warranty,if purchased from an AUTHORIZED dealer and we carry that line no problem completing warranty work.If purchased from unauthorized dealer,we may not be able to help.
Store policy on sales is to meet any AUTHORIZED dealers price that a customer may find online.

 

[Doc Harry]

Mess with someone's income.....

 

[Standingbear56]

This is my take.



The only way to stop online throat cutting would be for the manufacturers or distributors to enact a price protection policy and if any online retailer tries to undercut the LDS they get the ax
and the manufacurer stops selling to them. But the online business is huge and no manufacturer will ever do that, so here we are back to square one.

They DO do this, it's called MAP.

Being a "Click and Mortar" Dive Center ourselves, I can see both sides of the situation. Many store owners/staff get frustrated when they go out of their way to help a potential customer decide on which equipment would be best for them, only to have that customer go and buy it somewhere else, simply on the basis of price. When asked, I always tell an online customer to give their LDS a chance to match prices you see online. If they cannot match it dollar for dollar, then the customer has to make a decision. How much is the personal attention and advice that the LDS can give them worth? Certainly way more than a few bucks. Think of it this way - if you have a last minute equipment problem the day before you leave for your once in a lifetime dream dive vacation, who is going to be there for you to get it fixed - an online company, possibly located cross country from you, or your LDS? While we certainly would do anything possible to assist an online customer, it would be totally impossible for us to help say a customer in California (we're in NY) is the above case. We simply couldn't get the gear fast enough to turn it around before the customer left. We probably couldn't even get loaner gear out to them in time. Logistics make that impossible. I personally would be willing to pay more for the ability to take my gear to my LDS and to be able to talk personally with the staff if I have any problems.
That being said, unfortunately there are indeed way to many Dive Centers overcharging for their merchandise. Loyalty is a two way street. If I am constantly overcharged and not given perks to justify it, then of course I will take my business elsewhere. Just please remember that most Brick & Mortar shops do not have the volume buying capability of the larger online stores. A store which will sell 20 XYZ nuclear regulators cannot compete with an online store who buys 2000 of them. In the absence of MAP, the online store could quite easily sell the reg for LESS than the smaller store can buy them for.
As for servicing equipment purchased elsewhere - why not? The customer is giving your store business, and who knows where that can lead to. Hopefully they will continue to use your store in some capacity. Refusing to service equipment because it was purchased elsewhere (assuming you are also a dealer for that gear) is plain poor business. If the gear was purchased "grey market" (no manufacturer's warranty in effect) it should be explained to the customer that they will pay for whatever is normally covered under the warranty, but NEVER refuse them.
Doing good business involves using a lot of common sense. Before you speak to any customer, ask yourself - If I was the customer, how would I feel about the answer I am about to give. If you wouldn't like it, then you probably need to rethink your answer.
Take care & Happy Diving,
George