Yet, another ? about tying off the SPG and primary?

[karstdvr]

I don't understand how you could donate the long hose while keeping the stage reg in your mouth?

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Read up- the long hose is clipped to the D-ring on the chest. I am offering a rationale that donating the stage reg (in the mouth) may not be the optimum arrangement.

 

[rjack321]

I am well versed in this subject.

So you break the long hose free. And as you pull it over your head the stage hose prevents deployment. You have to either 1) remove the stage reg or 2) pass the long hose underneath it. What am I missing?

The DIR way always donates from your mouth - always. If this was in any other forum I would not be continuing to address it.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

Read up- the long hose is clipped to the D-ring on the chest.

I'm sorry, but there is no way to cleanly donate the long hose using the system you describe, because the stage hose and the long hose are crossed. At some point after you donate, you or your buddy is going to have to remove a reg from his mouth to get everything positioned properly for the exit. That might not seem like such a big deal, but in an OOG emergency, it could cause unnecessary delays in a time-critical situation.

The beauty of the DIR system is that once the OOG diver is plugged in, he keeps whatever reg you gave him - no need to swap hoses. Get him calmed down, give him your stage bottle, and off you go towards the exit. It's a simple and direct solution, which is exactly what you want under the circumstances.

I am offering a rationale that donating the stage reg (in the mouth) may not be the optimum arrangement.

Then that is not a DIR suggestion, and is probably more appropriately discussed in another forum.

 

[karstdvr]

No I appreciate the DIR system for the rationale behind the actions that are done,and you are well versed. Where this thread started and has mutated was the connection using o-ring vs cable tie vs cave line. Going back to this I still feel the o-ring method is a superior method if the correct type of o-ring is used,and replaced when wear is detected-although I can go 1 year without it deteriorating to the point of unanticipated failure. Too bad this method used to be considered DIR because it was in my opinion a superior system.

 

[MonkSeal]

I just want to stress some good points.

Donate the reg in your mouth. For a whopping 30 seconds you're connected by a 40inch hose.

Correct. BTW you would be at approximately same distance as for the first part of long hose deployment (before full deployment) which is still comfortable.

Then either pass the bottle over to the OOG diver, or switch them to your long hose depending on the circumstances.

Usualy it's a switch to long hose and then pass deco/stage but of course it depends on situation.

The DIR way always donates the reg in your mouth, whether you've got a single, doubles, or stages.

I don't thik that there's need for additional explanation for this.

And of course there hoses crossing issue described earlier. Break-away connection doesn't have anything with that.

Regarding break-away connection for long hose boltsnap: what do you do if it's just temporary OOG? You have separated bolt snap and dangling long hose during deco. Ok, I know it's not big deal, you can solve it with piece of cave line during deco.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

Where this thread started and has mutated was the connection using o-ring vs cable tie vs cave line. Going back to this I still feel the o-ring method is a superior method if the correct type of o-ring is used

The problem is that the only reason you are suggesting the O-ring method is because you are using it as a workaround to a non-DIR procedure for handling an OOG situation. If you donate the reg in the mouth (as suggested by several of us and required by DIR), then the breakaway is no longer needed. Both divers will have gas, and then you can take your time unclipping the long hose if it's needed.

The other problem with the breakaway is that once it's broken, your long hose cannot be restowed properly after the emergency has passed. In most cases where a diver signals OOG, they only think they are out of gas. I had a buddy signal me that he was OOG on a dive in Telford once, when all that had happened was that he had rolled off his backup. He checked his gauge, saw that it was at 0, and gave me the signal. Once we sorted out what had actually happened and turned his backup reg back on, everything was fine and we continued the dive.

Under your system, I might have had to complete that dive with an unsecured long hose. I personally don't see that as being "superior".

Too bad this method used to be considered DIR because it was in my opinion a superior system.

If it were truly a superior system, then it would have remained as part of DIR. However, the problems with it outweigh the benefits. And as I stated previously, the only situation that might actually require a breakaway on the long hose is for a rebreather diver, and even at that the option is so far down the scenario list that it's not likely to be used.

For everyone else, it is just an unnecessary potential failure point, with no real advantages and lots of potential disadvantages. That is why it is no longer suggested for DIR diving.

 

[serrada]

:huh: Should I not mention that I prefer to bungee my backup with the loop knots around the mouth piece instead of putting the bungee under the mouth piece zip tie?

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

:huh: Should I not mention that I prefer to bungee my backup with the loop knots around the mouth piece instead of putting the bungee under the mouth piece zip tie?

I've seen some folks who use a Zip tie over the bungee loop (kind of like a "belt and suspenders" approach to the backup necklace ). I guess the theory is that the Zip tie secures the bungee in place, but in case it breaks, then the integrity of the necklace will not be compromised.

I personally secure the bungee with the same Zip tie that holds the mouthpiece. I don't see any compelling reason for that connection to be a breakaway, and as I mentioned in a previous posting, the mouthpiece Zip tie is not subject to the same types of stresses that a boltsnap Zip tie would be. The connection seems secure enough to me, and allows for some adjustment in the necklace length.

I'm mostly ambivalent about the use of the bungee loop, but I definitely would not use that alone to secure the mouthpiece.

 

[rjack321]

In my absence, DIR atlanta more elegantly explained why the o-ring breakway on the long hose is a solution in search of a problem - if you donate from your mouth while breathing a stage.

If you chose not to donate from your mouth, that scenario belongs in another forum. Since that leads to all sorts of potential alternatives, like long hoses secured to the tanks.

 

[karstdvr]

The problem is that the only reason you are suggesting the O-ring method is because you are using it as a workaround to a non-DIR procedure for handling an OOG situation. .

I was also talking about this method too for spg. The only reason I brought it up is because it was strongly recommended by the WKPP for a long time,and then eventually became DIR when that came into existence.