Yet another scuba death at Tioman (Sipadan Wreck)

[Rick Murchison]

Although other dives in the Advanced class may be executed otherwise, the PADI standards state that the Deep dive MUST be done under "direct supervision". This means the instructor or a CA must be able to see the student throughout the dive. Allowing a student to descend in any other way is a standards violation...

Ultimately, "direct supervision" can only be accomplished two ways... one-on-one, or tie 'em together. Use Gordian knots!
All other arrangements leave "direct supervision" at the discretion of the supervised.

Rick

 

[AfterDark]

We did at least 100 dives before we went for the advanced course.
How is it that Dm's don't question/know the level of experience of a diver doing a course ? If it was only her 11th dive ever would the Dm not see that the diver is inexperienced ? From kitting up through descending to that depth in bad vis....surely you know who you are taking down to a depth of 30 meters if you are training people ?
I am sad to hear about the death of another young person who was inexperienced and allowed to dive this deep in bad vis. Also , make sure you keep your students under your control and close by ! Use additional Dm's if need be !

A friend's ex-wife got certified OW at a resort. While the "instructor" is handing her the card he asked if she would like to take AOW! Not one dive on her own with her husband or anyone else. My friend nixed the idea and gave the instructor his opinion of that offer. The more I read about the state of training in my beloved sport of diving the more horrified I become. Whatever happened to common sense never mind standards?!

 

[Zippsy]

cool79, many divers from Singapore are trained somewhere in the range of adequately to excellently. Many divers here end up good divers despite bad initial training. Sadly, too many don't. I'm not using a broad brush to tar everyone.

AfterDark, while I also waited a very long time before doing my advanced and I also recommend to my students to do several trips on their OW certs before considering the AOW course, I also have seen many students that would greatly benefit from taking the AOW course immediately after their OW. It all depends on circumstances and I don't know what the situation was for your friend's wife. Her instructor may just have been a bad salesman with good intentions.

 

[scagrotto]

While the "instructor" is handing her the card he asked if she would like to take AOW!

I don't remember what my instructor may have said, but the shop owner definitely tried to sell me the AOW course while I was "still in the learning mode" or something along those lines. That was several year back into the last century, so that aspect of the state of training isn't exactly a recent change.

There's some major irony in drowning with low viz during an AOW course, where getting some education about low viz might otherwise be beneficial for the future.

 

[Zippsy]

There's some major irony in drowning with low viz during an AOW course, where getting some education about low viz might otherwise be beneficial for the future.

Amen to that!

 

[AfterDark]

I don't remember what my instructor may have said, but the shop owner definitely tried to sell me the AOW course while I was "still in the learning mode" or something along those lines. That was several year back into the last century, so that aspect of the state of training isn't exactly a recent change.

There's some major irony in drowning with low viz during an AOW course, where getting some education about low viz might otherwise be beneficial for the future.

The change isn't recent in fact it started long ago and I've been watching the decline for quite sometime.

---------- Post added April 25th, 2014 at 07:51 AM ----------

I don't remember what my instructor may have said, but the shop owner definitely tried to sell me the AOW course while I was "still in the learning mode" or something along those lines. That was several year back into the last century, so that aspect of the state of training isn't exactly a recent change.

There's some major irony in drowning with low viz during an AOW course, where getting some education about low viz might otherwise be beneficial for the future.

He was an experienced diver and knew his then wife better than the instructor knew her and he didn't think it was a good idea, so who am I to question.

What I do question is what is so advanced about AOW if someone that just finished OW can pass it? I took AOW a couple of years, found nothing advanced about it just the same diving I'd been doing for years. IMO dump OW and go right to AOW and call it something else.

This is the last I'm posting of this here not on topic.

 

[Zippsy]

I always tell my students that it takes both experience and training to be an "advanced" diver. If they are one of the divers that I think would be better off taking the AOW course, or they have taken it on their own, I'll make sure they understand the term.

 

[jh_MacLeod]

Amen to that!

The other irony here is that this dive site almost always has poor visibility. I would say 5 meters is normal. The bottom is silt, but it's not divers who are stirring it up; it's the constant wind and wave action which affect this location. Only a couple of times each year does the water really get clear here so that you can see what's with you in the water column. That said, it's not a difficult site to dive; groups usually drop down the mooring line. But it would be easy for a diver to get separated from the group if she were descending slower than the others. That doesn't explain the death, however, because the report said that the other separated diver was able to surface alone. Again, the likely scenario, as with other Tioman deaths, probably involves panic of some sort, and that usually comes back to lack of experience. Dive centers use this site for two main reasons: it's convenient, and it's one of the only Tioman dive sites that can reach 30+ meters (therefore it's where the dive opps take people to do AOW or deep specialty).

 

[cool79]

The other irony here is that this dive site almost always has poor visibility. I would say 5 meters is normal. The bottom is silt, but it's not divers who are stirring it up; it's the constant wind and wave action which affect this location. Only a couple of times each year does the water really get clear here so that you can see what's with you in the water column. That said, it's not a difficult site to dive; groups usually drop down the mooring line. But it would be easy for a diver to get separated from the group if she were descending slower than the others. That doesn't explain the death, however, because the report said that the other separated diver was able to surface alone. Again, the likely scenario, as with other Tioman deaths, probably involves panic of some sort, and that usually comes back to lack of experience. Dive centers use this site for two main reasons: it's convenient, and it's one of the only Tioman dive sites that can reach 30+ meters (therefore it's where the dive opps take people to do AOW or deep specialty).

I done my deep dive at other site. Max depth I think was 22m.

If the diver isn't competent, then the diver company should not bring them there. They will damage the wreck. They need to have proper trim 1st.


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