Zeagle Ranger with Twin Tanks?

[manni-yunk]

I doubt that the OP will need more lift than what the Ranger wing provides. That said I would worry more about what happens if that wing fails.

Adding a SS plate will give 6lbs of negative buoyancy, 2 x 10lbs negative for each cylinder when full. Add another -4 lbs for two regs. And now you are looking at at least 30lbs negative buoyancy. None of this weight can be ditched. Sure some is offset by the body but none by the wetsuit at depth. Swimming that much weight up is going to be very hard at depth.

As such, with a wing failure the OP is going to go down like a bloody led zeppelin. As such, I am going to call BS on the OP for what they are trying to do with steel cylinders and others recommendations like get a SS backplate tech bladder.

Im not sure what you are calling BS on. Plus your math seems to be rounded up to the extreme. steel hp 100's are between -8.44 and -8.8 (Using Faber and PST specs and including valve) bouyancy. My 50d first stages weigh 2 lbs.

So its a lot closer to 20 lbs...than 30....right?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Well what do you recommend? I carry a 50lb lift bag and standard size open-bottom SMB if that's any help.

That aside, what do you guys think about this setup/price with the 300bar manifold?
High Pressure 100 Twin Cylinders discounts on sale ScubaToys

Personally I'd save $135 and go for the LP85's. Reason being is the 100's are based on you being able to get HP fills all time. There are still some shops that have compressors set to 3000 or fill guys who have no idea what they are doing and will tell you they filled em but used to doing al80's you get to the site and see that you have been screwed if you don't verify the fill before you leave the shop. And some will hot fill and by the time it cools you still don't have 100 cu ft of gas. At 3000 that gives you 87 cu ft in each tank, 3200 it's only a 92.

I have no problem getting my 85's filled to 3000 or even 3200 If I do it myself. Cave country or wreck areas will go even higher. Fill the 85's to 3000 and you now have a pair of 95's. Go to 3200 and they are now 105's. More than enough gas for any recreational dives. I have one HP tank. An 80. All of my steels are LP. And that $135 difference will buy a lot of fills at $5 or even $8(doubles) for air at a pop.

 

[Scared Silly]

Well what do you recommend? I carry a 50lb lift bag and standard size open-bottom SMB if that's any help.

That aside, what do you guys think about this setup/price with the 300bar manifold?
High Pressure 100 Twin Cylinders discounts on sale ScubaToys

If you are that close the neutral already with a single steel I would look at doubling a couple of AL80. I bet doubling a couple AL80s with a SS backplate would still give a pretty neutral rig.

-4lbs 2x AL80 full
-6lbs SS backplate
-4lbs 2x reg

-14 lbs full

-6 lbs empty

Depending on your buoyancy you could be right on the money for a nice neutral rig. If you are a bit buoyant at the end add a few pounds to a belt.

As for the lift bag - open or closed circuit? If closed then you have back up but still ask yourself if still want to be that negative and dealing with a lift bag as your backup?

A dry suit is better backup but not always practical in warm water. Some like using a second wing. Lots of pros and cons to that.

 

[Scared Silly]

Im not sure what you are calling BS on. Plus your math seems to be rounded up to the extreme. steel hp 100's are between -8.44 and -8.8 (Using Faber and PST specs and including valve) bouyancy. My 50d first stages weigh 2 lbs.

So its a lot closer to 20 lbs...than 30....right?

No, the OP said they had Worthingtons which according to their specs for HP100s:

XS Scuba Worthington Steel Cylinder Specifications

are 10 lbs negative when full. Fudge in adding the backplate at 4-6lbs and regs 2-4lbs. That puts the rig at 26-30lbs negative. Going to an AL back plate would shave 3-4lbs off which would help make it closer to the 22-26lbs but still not where I think one should be for the type of diving being described.

Even if at the end of the day the OP's rig is 26lbs negative that is a pretty negative to deal with in the event of a wing failure. It would be better to have a rig that is more balanced like AL80s which are the preferred doubles set up for warm water wet suit diving.

 

[Sonic04GT]

No, the OP said they had Worthingtons which according to their specs for HP100s:

XS Scuba Worthington Steel Cylinder Specifications

are 10 lbs negative when full. Fudge in adding the backplate at 4-6lbs and regs 2-4lbs. That puts the rig at 26-30lbs negative. Going to an AL back plate would shave 3-4lbs off which would help make it closer to the 22-26lbs but still not where I think one should be for the type of diving being described.

Even if at the end of the day the OP's rig is 26lbs negative that is a pretty negative to deal with in the event of a wing failure. It would be better to have a rig that is more balanced like AL80s which are the preferred doubles set up for warm water wet suit diving.

If I did AL80's, what do you recommend as a starting weight/rough estimate? I use about 8-10lbs with an AL80, and zero with an HP100.

As for the lift bag, it's this one. Open circuit I guess?
http://www.scuba.com/scuba-gear-245/031499/XS-Scuba-50lb-Lift-Bag.html

 

[Scared Silly]

That sounds about right for going between a HP100 and an AL80. So lets start with 10 lbs you need.

Add in a back plate at 6 negative and you need only 4 lbs of extra weight with a single AL80. Which is about what I use with my rig.

Now do doubles and add another AL80 cylinder which needs 4lbs to be neutral. So now 8 lbs of extra lead. You will gain a couple back with the reg/bands so you are looking at 6 lbs of extra weight.

When full add the -16 lbs from above (I wrote 14 but it should be -16 full and -4 empty). All total you have about -22 lbs of which ~10 lbs is offset by you. The remaining 12 is gas. As such, you need to be able to deal with 12 lbs if a complete wing failure. Of which 6 lbs is ditchable. And if you did ditch that 6 lbs you could probably swim your rig up.

If you were to use your HP100 with a AL backplate you would have ~16 lbs to deal with. None of which is ditchable. As such, you either need to swim 16 lbs up which not that easy or have back up. An open circuit SMB or lift bag is not something I consider backup as you can lose all buoyancy if they invert. I would prefer not to deal with a second ah crap if I happen to have a wing failure.

Of course all of this scenario is worst case at the beginning of the dive but hey Davy Jones and Darwin can come calling any time.

Finally, you might think about an intro to tech class. Much of what I have written would be covered in such a class.

 

[Sonic04GT]

That sounds about right for going between a HP100 and an AL80. So lets start with 10 lbs you need.

Add in a back plate at 6 negative and you need only 4 lbs of extra weight with a single AL80. Which is about what I use with my rig.

Now do doubles and add another AL80 cylinder which needs 4lbs to be neutral. So now 8 lbs of extra lead. You will gain a couple back with the reg/bands so you are looking at 6 lbs of extra weight.

When full add the -16 lbs from above (I wrote 14 but it should be -16 full and -4 empty). All total you have about -22 lbs of which ~10 lbs is offset by you. The remaining 12 is gas. As such, you need to be able to deal with 12 lbs if a complete wing failure. Of which 6 lbs is ditchable. And if you did ditch that 6 lbs you could probably swim your rig up.

If you were to use your HP100 with a AL backplate you would have ~16 lbs to deal with. None of which is ditchable. As such, you either need to swim 16 lbs up which not that easy or have back up. An open circuit SMB or lift bag is not something I consider backup as you can lose all buoyancy if they invert. I would prefer not to deal with a second ah crap if I happen to have a wing failure.

Of course all of this scenario is worst case at the beginning of the dive but hey Davy Jones and Darwin can come calling any time.

Finally, you might think about an intro to tech class. Much of what I have written would be covered in such a class.

Thanks a lot for the advice. I've been considering looking into such a class. How do you feel about a buddy assisting with the ascent in a wing failure, with say..those 16lbs with HP100s? I understand the negative side of using air in his BC in case we were to separate he is going to be on a faster than desirable ascent. How much can a 44lb bladder really assist though, as well as my swimming effort? Just figuring worst case as well, and what some options would be. AL80s sound much more feasible.

 

[Scared Silly]

Bad idea to rely on a buddy assist for the reasons you outline and others.

A wing has to requirements; float your rig with out you in it and fully compensate for loss of buoyancy of your exposure suit at depth. Anything is extra which may or may not be used in the course of a dive.