Zero to hero Divemaster program in 30 days - thoughts?

[mikemill]

Since there aren't DMs on the boats here I have to ask: What is the DM's responsibility? The only time I've had an interaction with a DM is when there happened to be one on the boat for a AOW class.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I don't think Prodive has a zero-to-hero program.

I suppose it depends on one's perspective; depending on your perspective here is their current full course schedule and here is the non-diver to DM in 6 weeks.

30-50 dive OW certified divers can try to make instructor in ~6 weeks with a number of operators. I am biased in favor of programs similar to Pro Dive, as I am a product of Ocean Divers (Key Largo).

Done properly these programs weed out the weaker divers during Rescue and further thin ranks in DM. By the start of the IDC the candidates should have already shown all necessary instructor dive skills.

Divers who chose these programs can get a pretty good amount of experience if they work it right! Not all would be instructors should chose this path; to each his (or her) own.

 

[rjack321]

Done properly

There's an enormous if...

Divers who chose these programs can get a pretty good amount of experience if they work it right!

I guess that depends on your perspective. All their experience is still with one outfit, with one agency's teaching approach, in one water type, in one region, off a particular type of boat...

Not the worldly, broadly knowledgable diver a "divemaster" should be IMHO.

 

[muddiver]

Forgetting the zero to hero aspect - this point by the original poster is what really interested me. A PADI DM has taken the rescue class once and has taken CPR/First Aid in the last 2 years.

Based on information from my local Red Cross's www page this means:
Adult CRP/First Aid - 6.5 hours
AED - 1 hour

The life guard down at the local pool is required to have this training:

CPR/AED for Lifeguards (LPRO) - 8 hours

This course covers recognizing and caring for breathing and cardiac emergencies, two rescuer CPR, use of resuscitation mask and bag-valve mask.
​

Title 22 (Emergency Response/First Aid) - 15 hours

This course trains firefighters, peace officers, lifeguards, public personnel and other first responders in the knowledge and skills necessary to help sustain life, reduce pain, and minimize the consequences of injury or sudden illness until more advanced medical help can arrive in accordance with the requirement of Title 22 of California Code of Regulations.
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Seems odd to my that a DM is not required to have more training in this area. Who do you want to be your surface support, the brand new DM or the brand new life guard?

The whole "should Instructors (and DM's by default) be required to have Lifeguard training" was hashed over last month. Nobody wants to go through the extra time and the enemic requirements for Rescue Diver as they are used now as a prerec for DM/Inst. don't support the process.

 

[W8less]

Hey how about a 30 day, 60 dive class for basic OW?

Might be an interesting poll/thread to see if current DM's have more certifications skills than a DM cert. Red Cross Lifeguard Training or WSI, EMT's

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Not the worldly, broadly knowledgable diver a "divemaster" should be IMHO.

In the real world the agencies and the employers have chosen a different definition of "divemaster."

I'm not happy about the fact that obese divers drift diving around Coz seem to be able to describe that activity as a "sport" now, and the fact that it seems the majority on SB also think the term "sport" applies to scuba diving. Your not happy about the fact that today's divemasters are not the worldly, broadly knowledgeable divers you think they should be.

I have seen very few divemasters produced the old way here in Hawaii the past 8 years, and most of them were single students that were ignored and postponed for months/years with the only times they were appreciated being when they were hauling gear and acting like assistants to facilitate large classes without the employer having to pay another Pro.

 

[padi613]

Zero to dive master in 30 days. Those dive organisations that promote this type of training tactics should not be allowed to continue in this manner. Again MONEY rears its ugly head putting profits before safety. I've been an instructor for some 10 years and I'm shocked by the lack of profesionalism, knowledge and skills that I have seen in a large number of so called diving profesionals. I do feel that it is time to adopt some of the older methods of training. Diving students should have to stay at the last achieved level for a period of time and accumalate X number of dives before being allowed to proceed to the next level. Is it the aim of these dive organisations to have a world full of diving instructors and zero open water qualified divers?
This situation is already occuring in the car industry where they now have more cars waiting to be sold than they have customers .

 

[rjack321]

In the real world the agencies and the employers have chosen a different definition of "divemaster."
.

I know. Same problem with "master scuba diver trainers" and even some "course directors". You can potentially get those pinnacle types cards with an alarming paucity of real world diving. Some pro candidates even do dinky little 21min dives (maybe several on one AL80) to pad their logbooks.

I'm not happy about the fact that obese divers drift diving around Coz seem to be able to describe that activity as a "sport" now, and the fact that it seems the majority on SB also think the term "sport" applies to scuba diving.

Kinda like watching Nascar?

I have seen very few divemasters produced the old way here in Hawaii the past 8 years, and most of them were single students that were ignored and postponed for months/years with the only times they were appreciated being when they were hauling gear and acting like assistants to facilitate large classes without the employer having to pay another Pro.

That's just a reflection of top down business values vs. bottom up customer values. But since the majority of certified people today do $199 courses as a loss leader to get them to buy gear, most customers wouldn't know a highly competent instructor or DM if they hit them in the head.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Navy salvage divers spend 70 days in training. I expect they have to be a lot better qualified than any PADI DM does.

60 days, diving 3 times a day on average is a lot of time underwater. Many, many folks become DMs with only 50 or so dives under their belt.

 

[Goindrinkn]

What might a DM on a boat need to do well:
Fill tanks
Track divers in and out of the water
Brief divers on the site / conditions
Assist divers
Cook / prep food
Surface assistance
Emergency Management / CPR / First AID / O2 / etc.

Boo! Hiss! to this post. I was never taught anything about cooking in my DM class...

But one thing, and I think it's the biggest thing is missing from this list. As crew or an AI helping a class - Diver Safety is the biggest part of my job. (2nd would be schlepping stuff around) Yes I know the emergency management procedures, however much of being an effective dive master is knowing how to prevent the emergencies in the first place. It's identifying the still anxious OW diver that got their card last week after 2 days in the pool and a day at the beach and assisting or educating them in so they don't do something potentially stupid. Part of job is to identify and try to resolve the issue on the dock or on the boat before someone gets into a life threatening situation. And that would be really hard to learn and tune in 30 days.

I would say that the zero to hero idea was conceived by the same people that make their money with the "learn to dive in a weekend"... And the DM completing an overly accelerated program would exponentially increase the potential for a problem especially when putting newly certified divers in the water.

We want it now. - We want to be open water certified in a weekend, and dive master in a month. And who knows if the guy before them paid the extra money to become and instructor in 2 weeks, they could be learning from someone who shouldn't even be instructing.

Bad idea all around as I see it. - money before all else