If you are a new diver, please read this

[rstofer]

Probably depends on the person. Some would rather save the money and do some simple algebra. Others would rather spend the money and not do the simple algebra.

That said, I've yet to see a gas integrated computer that will signal to ascend before your buddy is too low on gas to get you to the surface.

But it's getting closer! There are now air integrated dive computers that will at least monitor multiple divers (up to 3 I think). I don't know that they do Remaining Dive Time calculations for other than the primary diver. They certainly could.

Before I ever started my Open Water I class, I had already formulated two principles for safe diving: a) I didn't belong in the ocean, everything was foreign and b) if I ran out of air I would die. Pretty simple concepts. My NAUI course dealt with the details of air consumption at depth and they were adequately demonstrated during my training.

But I didn't really need the class to remind me of my first two principles. So, I have always watched my SPG like a hawk. It is the only thing that keeps me from violating my 2d principle. I also tend to watch my buddy's SPG. A little paranoia will go a long way toward increased safety in this hobby.

Richard

 

[Thalassamania]

I think you missed my point. But in any case, 100% effectiveness is a pretty strong claim.

Never-the-less, no fatalities is 100% effectiveness. And remember that these divers spend most of their diving career in a program and in an accident reportable employer/employee relationship.

I got more information last night, from someone who was there. The diver who died should have had enough diving experience to know she was likely to be low on gas when she was. Which doesn't negate the value of teaching a structured kind of gas management.

In addition, someone brought up on our local board that it wasn't just running out of gas that caused this accident, but also being unable to orally inflate the BC and dump weights. Although weight removal is something one might not have the opportunity to practice frequently, orally inflating a BC is something we can all do any time we surface. A friend of mine, who is an instructor, makes this his practice. That way, if you surface in distress, the reflex to reach for the inflator and blow into it will be ingrained.

Your analysis is, I think, correct. When you trace those sorts of items back to their source I think you find the cause is not enough time and the belief that is pushed (primarily) by PADI that you do something once and your ready to move on to the next skill. As part of other skills, our students must doff and don their weight belts between 50 and 100 times and inflate their BCs by mouth an equal number of times.

 

[Blackwood]

Yah, I've seen computers advertised that will show a buddy's pressure if he has the same type of wireless transmitter. To tell a buddy pair to ascend based on "enough gas remaining to surface both divers," each computer would have to not only display both divers' consumption rates, but track them along with depth.

Going back to the "easy sell" post I was replying to: sounds more expensive than paper and pencil (or conservative rounding and gray matter).

 

[AbyssalPlains]

The dive industry is not only getting worse, it's getting criminal.

 

[maged_mmh]

I believe that OW students CAN be taught to calculate their gas consumption, even if in fairly gross numbers.

I believe that OW students SHOULD be taught that gas consumption will double or triple or quadruple with depth.

I believe that OW students should go through some calculations to show that leaving the bottom at 500 psi will not suffice at deeper depths, especially if one diver has any kind of gas problems. I believe that all divers should go through a calculation of how much gas is required to get two divers to the surface off the same gas supply, so that they can be impressed with how much of a small tank that is.

I believe all divers should be taught that some kind of gas planning belongs in the dive plan. But then, I also believe that all divers should be taught to put together an organized dive plan for every dive, even if it's simple.

I deeply believe that diving, if people are taught adequate skills and adequate planning, is a very safe and fun activity, and that the vast majority of diving deaths would be prevented by a better basic education.

These are my beliefs.

BTW, ALL what you listed is taught in PADI OW course

 

[Fly Girl]

Mental Notes (things I have learned from this thread as a new diver) -
1. When in doubt, drop the lead - when have I ever walked away from an opportunity to spend even more money on diving?
2. Practice orally inflating my BCD underwater
3. Start planning gas management (thanks to your other emails, Lynne!)
4. Panic kills

Lynne, thank you for bringing this important issue to our attention on the new diver board. I hope that this diver knows somehow that her death is not all in vain. Her unfortunate death may save the lives of many others.

 

[Thalassamania]

BTW, ALL what you listed is taught in PADI OW course

We have a guiding maxim: "Just 'cause you think you've taught doesn't mean that they have learned."

 

[masterof0]

When you trace those sorts of items back to their source I think you find the cause is not enough time and the belief that is pushed (primarily) by PADI that you do something once and your ready to move on to the next skill.

My OW PADI instructor forced several students in my course to demonstrate ascents on multiple occasions, not because they were doing skill assessments, but because during other checkout dives he noticed that they were continually "shooting to the surface." Is this something that PADI expects, don't know, but I can tell you it was definitely an expectation of the instructor. He made it known other no uncertain terms that although you have done a skill assessment, it does not stop there and if he feels like you are not doing it properly, he will pull you aside and continue to work with you one it. He was also very adimant about gas management. Not detailed in the respect of NWGreatful Diver docs, but at a minimum managing to the rule of thirds and knowing what we have at all times (continually asking what each student has to validate that we are checking).

I know a lot of this discussion deals with what an instructor can/should be teaching in the classroom, but as it so often pointed out in many of these threads, it goes far beyond the agency to the instructor. We have all seen good divers from every agency and bad ones, but generally speaking, there is a consensus that the instructor is what makes he difference. So to continually point out PADI is creating a false illusion that PADI is the source of all of diving's problems. I have not trained through any other agency, so I could be wrong when I state this, but based on what I have seen/read there seems to be only two agencies that give actual grade cards that document each skill and that is GUE and UTD. All others are a pass/fail with no other details offered. So why continue to single out PADI. Not to mention they are all part of a consortium that establishes minimum standards for training. So they all have a stake in it.

 

[Ursus]

I dove the Flower Gardens this weekend, which is located 120 mile offshore Galveston, Texas in 100' of water. There was strong current and waves in the upper 15' of water colum. Ascent and decent is accomplished using a line to the mooring cable which you drag yourself down below the surface hand over hand. Dealing with the waves, current, guideline to the boat, and then the secondary line for approaching the rear ladder was challenging for everyone.

It was a good lesson in air consumption and planning adequate reserves. Normally, I am headed back up when I hit around 850 psi to do my safety stop and asent. After which I would normally have approx. 500 psi left at the surface. Due to the extra exersion and amount of time to drag yourself along the return line through waves and current, plus any time spent waiting my turn to jump on the boarding rope and get up the stairs I was burning through another 200 - 300 psi. It took everyone a while to get used to the procedure. Quite a few divers got really close to bingo from not having factored into the equation enough reserves for any surface delays (current, waves, waiting in rotation, etc). One diver was forced to buddy breath at the surface while on the boarding line that was only 20' from the boat.

I am a new diver and from my own experience and preference, I believe that certain fundamental skills need to more focus and drills/training, especially emergency situations. Oral inflation of BC or inflation of safety sausage...the first time you are doing this shouldn't be an emergency. Dive computers are a wonderful asset...understanding the fundamentals of the math behind the calculations is essential. Just as important is understanding what the data means that your computer is displaying and how to use it. This seems to be a huge deficit in the owners manuals and training for computers. I shouldn't need to do 50 dives before I start to figure out what all my computer is telling me...I showed already know where the data is before I ever start my first dive using a new computer.

Things I learned and observed from this weekend:
1) Plan for the Unexpected - air is vital.
- "Thirds Rule" is a good standard....1/3 of air for descent, 1/3 air for sight seeing, and 1/3 for ascent/safety stop.

2) Snorkels are part of your life support equipment
- May not look cool and may only be useful at surface, but if you are out of air and stranded an inflated BC and Snorkel will save you. At least have a collapsable snorkel in your BC pocket.

3) Safety Sausage - know how to inflate and use it before your really need it

4) So long as you have air you have time to work through any problems

5) Your safety strategy shouldn't hinge on your partner saving you

6) Know your abilities and voice your concerns

7) Use your compass...upon entering water make a mental note of direction / orientation of boat and dive plan so that don't

8) Computer on Wrist is best
- I have a console unit which I look at frequently. I realized this weekend just how much easier and more frequently I would be checking my data if it were strapped on my wrist. I plan to buy an integrated wrist unit as a primary and use my console as a backup going forward.

 

[maged_mmh]

We have a guiding maxim: "Just 'cause you think you've taught doesn't mean that they have learned."

Agree; but let's not forget that whomever take up dive "education" is showing up coz he/she wants to and not coz they have to.
pretty much similar to that we're all around here on this board and not on other hobby forum elsewhere.
dive training is not a college degree; heck, even on college degree they don't teach all what you need; it is the person responsibility to pursue further knowledge and acquire/improve his basic skills.