Dive Insurance or Not

[RJP]

If you have the $50,000 to $100,000 that an evacuation and chamber ride might cost, and spending it wouldn't be a financial disaster, then save the $100 on DAN.

Of course the fact of the matter is, that if you have $50-$100K to toss around without a significant financial impact, you're probably a pretty smart cookie. Smart enough in fact to realize that the $70 for DAN master insurance is money well spent. (ie: few people get rich by being foolish)

If your medical insurance covers it (and I don't see why it wouldn't), save the $100.

The fact that you "don't see why they wouldn't cover it" doesn't change the fact that medical insurance won't typically cover evac, chamber, etc. They certainly won't cover hotel, transport, lost gear, lost dive days, etc as result of an accident. Nor will they typically cover ANYTHING if you're in some remote 3rd world dive location, where DAN usually will.

I'll stand by my earlier statement. Anyone who dives without dive insurance is a fool.

 

[RJP]

Thanks to everyone !!!! I figured I would get a better response in this forum. I was on the fence but since I dive with my son I was going to get it anyways. Thanks.:admingreet:

DAN family plan is even cheaper per person...

 

[vladimir]

Of course the fact of the matter is, that if you have $50-$100K to toss around without a significant financial impact, you're probably a pretty smart cookie. Smart enough in fact to realize that the $70 for DAN master insurance is money well spent. (ie: few people get rich by being foolish)

I have that, it wouldn't ruin my day to lose it, and the reason I have it is because I understand math a lot better than you do, apparently. If the utility that you get in terms of security or convenience is worth the $70 to you, buy it. If you can afford the $50k, or whatever it is, pass it up.

I'll stand by my earlier statement. Anyone who dives without dive insurance is a fool.

Anybody who can't understand a simple mathematical principle like expectancy probably makes foolish decisions every day without knowing it.

 

[RJP]

I have that, it wouldn't ruin my day to lose it, and the reason I have it is because I understand math a lot better than you do, apparently. If the utility that you get in terms of security or convenience is worth the $70 to you, buy it. If you can afford the $50k, or whatever it is, pass it up.

Anybody who can't understand a simple mathematical principle like expectancy probably makes foolish decisions every day without knowing it.

Anyone who doesn't understand the difference between "mathematics" and "economics" is far worse off.

 

[vladimir]

I certainly missed the economics principle that advises making negative-expectancy bets. Maybe you can point me to it.

 

[RJP]

I certainly missed the economics principle that advises making negative-expectancy bets. Maybe you can point me to it.

You must have missed the very first chapter of Econ 101, which discusses the concept of "utility" and if so, obviously missed the more advanced discussions of generalized expected utility theories such as anticipated utility, rank-dependent utility, or most importantly cumulative prospect theory.

The purchase of a product or service is widely different than making a trade or placing a wager with the expentency of a positive return. Particularly the purchase of insurance which by definition provides the utility of minimizing losses in some future time/condition, not maximizing gain. (Essentially a "least regret" decision model.)

 

[drbill]

I wouldn't dive without it and most of my diving is local... and the chamber is only 10 miles away.

 

[vladimir]

You must have missed the very first chapter of Econ 101, which discusses the concept of "utility" and if so, obviously missed the more advanced discussions of generalized expected utility theories such as anticipated utility, rank-dependent utility, or most importantly cumulative prospect theory.

I'm glad you studied cumulative prospect theory. Too bad you didn't understand it. If you had, you'd realize this is the theory that explains why people often make bad decisions--because they overweight small-probability events with large consequences, like shark attacks, decompression sickness, and lottery winnings. So stop buying lottery tickets and insurance you don't need, and focus instead on your high cholesterol and your credit card debt.

 

[ScubaSarus]

How about calculating the risk to reward ratio.

your risk spending $70 for a possible $100,000 to $250,000 benefit or expense that could lead to bankruptcy and loss of all posessions.

That should sum it up and cut thru the economics babble.

I challenge anyone here to call their insurance company and ask if you are covered for decompression chamber therapy should you get the bends from recreational diving.

Don't take anyones word for it, call them yourselves. Enjoy the silence and mumbles as your insurance rep. struggles with the question and rushes you off the phone.

I'll wait patiently for the responses.

 

[mselenaous]

A fellow instructor recently got bashed in the knee while trying to get through the surf zone with a student. The tank butt that hit his knee wiped out his MCL and ACL ligaments so he will have months of rehab after surgery. Yes his primary insurance, Kaiser, is covering most off it but DAN is covering his share of the co-pays, deductibles, etc.

And even if you never use it, consider the $70 going to a worthy organization that keeps up-to-date on the latest in dive-related medical issues & treatments. Anyone with or without DAN insurance can call DAN for advise and referrals to dive-medicine experienced specialists in your local area.

DAN is like the VISA commercial says...everywhere you want to be.