E-Learning: the way forward or maybe not?

[Coldwater_Canuck]

PADI requires 25 dives to enrol in the DiveMaster program ...

Noooo...it requires 30...that's a BIG difference...

Well kind of funny thing here: you're right that I'm 5 dives off, but you went in the wrong direction

Turns out according to PADI Divemaster Courses
the pre-req is: "Have at least 20 dives to begin the course and 60 for certification"

Now to be fair you also need Rescue Diver, so basically someone with the required 4 OW dives, 5 AOW dives, and 5 Rescue Diver dives, and just 6 dives without an instructor is ready to enrol in the Divemaster course. Granted, they can't graduate for a little while, but that person can still be helping to teach classes and everything.

 

[gcbryan]

Actually PADI e-learning is a good idea if it was just a supplement. It actually adds rather than subtracts if used that way. At a minimum level it's no different than the current system.

Read the material in the book, do the practice reviews, and go to class. With e-learning you do the reading online which could be more visual and interactive, do the reviews online, and go to class where the instructor can add value.

No one has really said that this isn't the way it is used. The real problem just seems to be that it cost's more. That's an issue for the student but no one else.

I think this subject is just possibly being used to flog whatever issues one currently has with the scuba educational system. It's not necessarily really about e-learning.

This is just a hobby after all except in Thals case teaching university students which is a whole different subject.

Me learning to fly an airplane has nothing to do with the flight standards of the Air Force.

I agree current standards are bothersome but I also rock climb where there are no standards in the sense of PADI and the other agencies.

Self preservation does seem to do a better job there than in diving simply because rock climbing isn't marketed in the way of scuba. Obesity also plays a part in self selection there of course.

 

[otterdive]

There is no reason to think that by the major training agencies offering e-learning that there is a slippery slope to having no, or little instructor role in Open Water courses. PADI, unfairly, seems to bear the brunt of misinformed opinions about dive certification agencies. Let's face it... learning the dive is easy. It's ridiculously easy. For the average recreational diver, diving is easy, and the statistics bear out that it's a very safe activity. I have actually heard fellow instructors bashing PADI for two things that completely contradict each other. On one had they bitch about PADI being overly concerned with liability, while saying that they ignore safe diving instructional practices and make it too easy. Would PADI's team of lawyers completely miss this? No. Making basic level Open Water training convenient, enjoyable, and affordable, has opened up diving to millions of people, without the doomsday scenario of the bodies of poorly trained divers floating everywhere.

I do, however, think it's much too easy to become a Divemaster, or an Instructor. I waited till I felt ready, not when PADI, or any other training organization said I had reached a minimum.

 

[Thalassamania]

Actually PADI e-learning is a good idea if it was just a supplement. It actually adds rather than subtracts if used that way. At a minimum level it's no different than the current system.

Read the material in the book, do the practice reviews, and go to class. With e-learning you do the reading online which could be more visual and interactive, do the reviews online, and go to class where the instructor can add value.

No one has really said that this isn't the way it is used. The real problem just seems to be that it cost's more. That's an issue for the student but no one else.

Substituting e-learning for books, no problem.

I think this subject is just possibly being used to flog whatever issues one currently has with the scuba educational system. It's not necessarily really about e-learning.

It's impossible to divorce the two issues.

This is just a hobby after all except in Thals case teaching university students which is a whole different subject.

Except that's not the case, these days I teach many more family members of former students that I do university students, so I teach a rather broad cross section, at least of that segment of humanity where one or more members of the family are university graduates.

Me learning to fly an airplane has nothing to do with the flight standards of the Air Force.

It did for me ... but then my Dad and my Uncle were Air Force flight instructors and I suspect that made me a better pilot than I might have been otherwise.

 

[gcbryan]

Maybe, maybe not.

You might be better at delivering ordinance on target...I'll give you that.

I also took helicopter lessons and some of the worse students were people transitioning from flying in the military to civilian life. Some skills were good but thinking outside the box was not so good in many cases. Also, certain aspects of their flying skills were very limited to what they were allowed to do in the military versus what they do to obtain a commercial cert in civilian life.

On the other hands many were very skilled of course.

 

[TSandM]

Having sat in the classroom through two OW classes now, as the knowledge reviews were corrected and the missed questions were discussed, I think an online system might be superior in this way: As you work through an online classroom, you can be asked questions and answer them, and you get IMMEDIATE feedback on what you have done right and what you have done wrong, and can do another question or go back and reread the section pertaining to what you have missed.

As it goes with the book, the students fill out the knowledge reviews and write down things that are wrong, and then those answers have hours or days to sit in the student's brain before they are caught, corrected, and explained. My guess is that doing this on line with immediate feedback results in correct answers being ingrained, not incorrect ones.

It works that way in continuing medical education, and I do as much of that on line as I can, because it avoids travel.

 

[Interceptor121]

No one has really said that this isn't the way it is used. The real problem just seems to be that it cost's more. That's an issue for the student but no one else.

This is a good point. I guess for the time-poor potential student it is possibly acceptable to pay more, but maybe not an option for everyone?

 

[gcbryan]

This is a good point. I guess for the time-poor potential student it is possibly acceptable to pay more, but maybe not an option for everyone?

It's too bad it isn't just a free option for anyone who signs up for a PADI class with class time remaining the same.

An instructor shouldn't just be standing up there rehashing what the student has already read in the book anyway. I think that is what the instructor did in my class but I'm sure the better instructors use it to add value with demonstrations of physics or other concepts.

I think the reason this is pushing some peoples buttons is just that scuba instruction is already rather limited and the last thing that the industry needs is a way to make certification even quicker and even more inclusive.

Ultimately, you could get certified in one day. Just read all the material beforehand, complete the e-learning, go to the pool in the morning and do 4 dives in the afternoon/evening....I mean for the student who is really busy and has limited time.

 

[leapfrog]

I do, however, think it's much too easy to become a Divemaster, or an Instructor. I waited till I felt ready, not when PADI, or any other

I totally agree. OTOH PADI doesn't tell you to become an instructor when you have 100 logged dives, it's just the minimum requirement. So ultimately you decide. I think the problem may be the lack of other prerequisites to become an instructor (just an idea) and an examination system where the majority of candidates pass at the first attempt.

Well kind of funny thing here: you're right that I'm 5 dives off, but you went in the wrong direction ...Turns out according to PADI Divemaster Courses the pre-req is: "Have at least 20 dives to begin the course and 60 for certification"

Shucks, you mean I could have started my DM after only 20 dives?....what a waste of time and money by not doing it then and having all that fun diving before I decide to Go Pro but hey, by pointing out I got the standards wrong as far as the number of dives to enrol on the DM course, they're going to make me give my Instructor card back....:depressed:...just goes to show that PADI does have Quality Management... any other agency want to take me, please? :blinking:

 

[leapfrog]

I do, however, think it's much too easy to become a Divemaster, or an Instructor. I waited till I felt ready, not when PADI, or any other

I totally agree. OTOH PADI doesn't tell you to become an instructor when you have 100 logged dives, it's just the minimum requirement. So ultimately you decide. I think the problem may be the lack of other prerequisites to become an instructor (just an idea) and an examination system where the majority of candidates pass at the first attempt.

Well kind of funny thing here: you're right that I'm 5 dives off, but you went in the wrong direction ...Turns out according to PADI Divemaster Courses the pre-req is: "Have at least 20 dives to begin the course and 60 for certification"

Shucks, you mean I could have started my DM after only 20 dives?....what a waste of time and money by not doing it then and having all that fun diving before I decide to Go Pro but hey, by pointing out I got the standards wrong as far as the number of dives to enrol on the DM course, they're going to make me give my Instructor card back....:depressed:...just goes to show that PADI does have Quality Management... any other agency want to take me, please? :blinking: