Deco dive plan sheet

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There's that damn GUE again, screwing with proper tech diving. :)

The problem is that GUE and other tech agencies assume that divers are getting some basic training prior to class. True, there are now complete OW programs from the beginning with GUE and UTD today, but it is also true today that fewer and fewer divers entering tech training have the academic and skills foundations.

Tech instructors face the same challenges that many educators in the public school system face by having to put more remedial work into a course rather than being able to focus more attention on developing foundational skills and knowledge into greater capabilities.

Also, because students are hungry for knowledge, they tend to move into technical diving sooner after finding too many courses that seek to not lose students by making things too easy, too entertaining, and bereft of the meat and potatoes info and skill development they intrinsically desire.

I end up teaching tables in advanced nitrox courses rather than reviewing them.
 
Hey Ronald,
Big admiration here for anyone who can do that, but for those of us (hopefully a small minority here) who are not well educated ( started surface supply air diving out of high school) and cannot trust their own math, a computer is the way to go if you dont have a dive supervisor with a master blender on the surface telling you what to do and altering your mix through the umbilical.
Equations give me a headache and remind me why I ran away from school and became a diver in the first place:D

Sat Diver,

I think some people may have misunderstood me. When creating these dive plans, I don't do anything really complicated. I simply use some trusted and familiar tables (e.g., US Navy tables) and "brute force" my way with them using very few equations or formuli, none of which is complicated.

In my opinion, the hardest thing about doing these plans by hand, is simply keeping one's work organized (since there are a lot of tedious, though simple, steps that need to be taken in the "correct" order). Some people learn to do the basics in their open water course. Others learn these basics later.

My hand-written example here http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba.../377545-gas-planning-example.html#post5831222 (which is for a rec dive rather than a tech dive) actually uses many of the basics one would use to plan a tech dive--with the exception of computing CNS oxygen dose. It might look a bit overwhelming at first glance, but if you actually *watch* someone do one of these plans, you would probably be delightfully surprised how straightforward this type of thing really is. Like so many other things, the trick is to *watch* someone do one of these first!

Safe Diving,

Ronald
 
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I got away from sheets and just focused on using dive planning software and ratio decompression, but discovered that most of my technical students who have come from GUE nearly fail the written examinations for advanced nitrox and trimix. For example, if a question asks the student to calculate the EAD of Nitrox 32 at 100 feet and determine the decompression plan, nearly every GUE student will mentally do a 20% reduction in depth, arrive at 80 feet and plan the dive as an 80 foot dive. In reality, the correct answer would be 81.48 feet and would be rounded to 90 feet on a table. For this reason, I'm bringing tables and planning sheets back to classes.

While battlefield calculations are excellent to use underwater and ratio decompression allows a dive team to intelligently change the dive plan underwater, it's unfortunate when those awesome "on the fly" tools create confusion or mistakes in the proper use of basic dive tables. Newer tech divers, or even recreational divers who haven't purchased computers yet, might look to experienced technical divers for help with dive planning. Basic dive planning and table use should be learned well if for no other reason than to help others safely plan their dives.

What tables report to the hundredth of a foot?

Glad you went with PSIA.
 
Of course, that's the point. Whatever gases one calls standard, any time you elect to use a single gas over a range of depths, the po2 at the shallow end of that range will be at a deficit relative to a single gas selected at max po2 for that depth.

Those dives are well beyond my training and experience, but if someone said "dude you have to come see this wreck at 300, it'll blow your mind," I may go for the specific gas approach over the standard gas approach. It's a one-off that I'll never repeat, so what do I gain by using the standard gas? Nothing. Can I figure it in my head? Sure, but just as sure I'll triple check it against software.

It's a numbers game, and a magnitude one at that. 20%
more deco... who cares/1.2 times what?

30 minutes more deco... I care, particularly if it comes with no benefits to me.

The problem is you skipped a standard gas! I suspect a deco gas as well.
 
What tables report to the hundredth of a foot?

Glad you went with PSIA.

I am too. Our students and divers know that most dive tables round up to the next greatest depth and time - even if that is one foot or one minute beyond a tabled time and depth.

Of course, you probably think you are too cool for that.

I can do both. I can also use a calculator to perform the EAD formula, correctly operate dive tables, dive in a GUE team, and conduct myself online with more manners, respect toward others, and in a far more positive way than your often rude and condescending posting history suggests you are capable.
 
Hi Jax,
nice table :wink:

Despite having written our own implementation of the ZH-L16C+GF algo, I am not an expert in tables ....so have more a question than a suggestion .... column 3 is Max Depth in ft, shouldn't column 4 be Max Depth in meters? Last time I checked ATA is not a measure of distance like ft or m :depressed:

Also ... what is the "Ascent Pressure" box in the center left?

Best Regards,

Alberto (aka eDiver)
 
Hi Jax,
nice table :wink:

Despite having written our own implementation of the ZH-L16C+GF algo, I am not an expert in tables ....so have more a question than a suggestion .... column 3 is Max Depth in ft, shouldn't column 4 be Max Depth in meters? Last time I checked ATA is not a measure of distance like ft or m :depressed:
I wouldn't think so. The columns are showing common values used in dive planning - Depth in feet, depth in ATA's and PO2 at depth.

Also ... what is the "Ascent Pressure" box in the center left?

Best Regards,

Alberto (aka eDiver)

I'd assume that ascent pressure is the pressure you plan to start your ascent at (rock bottom?), or for recording the pressure you started ascending at.
 
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I am too. Our students and divers know that most dive tables round up to the next greatest depth and time - even if that is one foot or one minute beyond a tabled time and depth.

So your students round a 100ft dive up to 90ft apparently. Which would not be "seamlessly integrating" into whatever "team" you think they belong in this week.

Of course, you probably think you are too cool for that.

I can do both. I can also use a calculator to perform the EAD formula, correctly operate dive tables, dive in a GUE team, and conduct myself online with more manners, respect toward others, and in a far more positive way than your often rude and condescending posting history suggests you are capable.

Has nothing to do with cool and everything to do with relevant. You're the one who brought up irrelevant EAD precision calculated to the 1/100th of a foot. As if knowing or not knowing that factoid was somehow important to a budding technical diver's understanding of EAD. Do you force students to round their 21.2/34.8 trimix down to 21.0/34.0 for END calculations to the 1/100th of a foot and up to 22.0/xx for CNS, and fractions of pulmonary units? What on earth for? To prove they "get" it?

News flash, its not relevant on paper or in the water.
 
So your students round a 100ft dive up to 90ft apparently. Which would not be "seamlessly integrating" into whatever "team" you think they belong in this week.



Has nothing to do with cool and everything to do with relevant. You're the one who brought up irrelevant EAD precision calculated to the 1/100th of a foot. As if knowing or not knowing that factoid was somehow important to a budding technical diver's understanding of EAD. Do you force students to round their 21.2/34.8 trimix down to 21.0/34.0 for END calculations to the 1/100th of a foot and up to 22.0/xx for CNS, and fractions of pulmonary units? What on earth for? To prove they "get" it?

News flash, its not relevant on paper or in the water.

The point of my post was that dive planning worksheets can be educational and while I abandoned their use in classes, I feel that I need to bring them back because even well-trained divers such as those coming from GUE seem to lack the ability to correctly use tables and calculate formulas when planning dives.

With the exception of one guy, every student that I've had with a GUE background finds himself or herself scoring poorly on exam questions when it comes to using tables or calculating formulas because they will employ battlefield math. On the fly calculations are great and do work well, but the students forget or don't understand certain rules that are fairly standard procedures across the board from agency to agency.

An example of which is a question on the PSAI advanced nitrox exam which firsts ask the student, "What is the EAD of Nitrox 32 at 100 feet?" The multiple choice answers are: 70 feet, 80 feet, 81 feet, and 92 feet.

With the exception of one guy, every GUE student I've had in class has answered incorrectly choosing 80 feet. All have admitted that they chose to use the battlefield calculation of a 20% reduction in depth when using Nitrox 32 to arrive at their answer. Right away, having been through as many tests as most of you in high school and college, that 80 feet vs. 81 feet looks pretty suspicious to me. That alone might warrant attention to double check my brain by working the EAD formula rather than just doing a "quick calc" on the fly.

The Equivalent Air Depth formula is: EAD = [FN2*(Depth + 33)/.79] - 33

Tables don't calculate to a 100th of a foot, but calculators do.

Using a calculator for Nitrox 32 at 100 feet the values would be: [(.68*133)/.79] - 33 = [(90.44/.79] - 33 or 114.48 - 33 = 81.48 feet. I left the decimals in place in my post so that readers could round up or round down as they chose.

On paper, I'd calculate it as 81 feet.

Call it 81, 81.4, 81.48, 81.5 or 82 feet. Any way you slice it, the student will discover that he or she must now consider that 81 feet is past 80 feet for decompression purposes and must move to the next greater tabled depth of 90 feet.

News flash: That is relevant to the correct use of any dive table and relevant to the correct way to use equivalent air depth and tables such as the US Navy Standard Air Decompression Tables for nitrox diving.

With that knowledge a student can seamlessly integrate with any divers trained by instructors from PDIC, TDI, PSAI, NACD, NSS-CDS, or any other group that uses US Navy, Bulhmann, DCIEM, or any table that instructs the user to go to the next greater tabled depth or time if a tabled depth or time has been exceeded.
 
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The problem is you skipped a standard gas! I suspect a deco gas as well.

Lol. The standard gases I was taught were:

32, 30/30, 21/35 (later 25/25 for shallower dives), 18/45, 15/55 and 10/70

Sure, maybe I missed 12/ (and maybe 8/).
 
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