AOW right after OWD

[Searcaigh]

AOW after OW doesn't make anyone advanced. It does give them a look at different types of diving and environment. It is the individual who calls themselves 'Advanced' when they sign up for the 'advanced' dives.

Well that would be 99.99% of all divers then IMO, I know that I called my self an Advanced Diver when I completed my AOW.

As for logbooks, I still use them and log some dives more meticulously than others especially if I have found new (to me) species of nudibranch. This is all for my own benefit naturally, it is a reference for various points as others have suggested such as water conditions (temp, current etc) as well as the photogear I used on that dive plus other details that I feel are relevant.

I archive my annual log at the end of the year in special 3-ring binders and use a waterproof cover "working" 3 ring binder for current dives. Nothing online and I am certainly not going to scan all of my log books to lose them in a hard drive crash or some virus. I have a friend that lost all of her dives when her computer crashed some years ago, and was very upset about it and has gone back to paper. If anyone wants to see my logbook they see only the logged dives for that year, and scanned copies of my OW /AOW / Rescue cards that are all 20+ years old and I have never been asked for any other information.

Checkout dives, all for them, if I ran my own dive op this would be mandatory as well as use of SMBs on boat dives. Like others after a long trip to the dive destination it gives me a good chance to check out my gear too.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That's one perspective. Perceptions are really only valid when supported by facts (data). Continuous improvement is achieved through analyzing what we know to be real (logged data), rather than what we think is real (memory of past dives). You may think all is well, but then see a trend in your dive performance data that indicates otherwise. Trends will appear in performance data long before they are perceived by a diver. It's akin to watching a video of yourself, you'll see patterns over time that you didn't feel were true when you were in the water.

One regularly hears experienced divers say that they're always learning. But how is that occurring if they're no longer paying close attention to their dives? The approach that says "I've got thousands of dives, I don't need to know details anymore" is an indication of complacency.

So, if you're not using your logbook to do anything more than record your trophies, or to meet agency experience requirements for training, why bother to log dives?

... because I want to ...

You're assuming that everyone learns as you apparently do ... by staring at a piece of paper with numbers and words on it. That is a fallacious assumption. Words and numbers convey knowledge ... they do not convey understanding. We all process information in our own way ... some through analysis, some through introspection, some through experience. And while all of those conveyances of information can be useful, each will be more or less useful to a given individual based on that person's inherent learning preferences and abilities. One size never fits all. Dive logs can be useful for some ... particularly those who don't dive very often. They can be repetitious and redundant for others ... particularly those who dive several times a week. That doesn't mean the latter won't find value or fulfillment in maintaining one. It depends entirely on that person's goals and interests.

If your diving improves because of your analysis of data logged on previous dives, that's great. Don't assume that because you get that kind of value out of your dive log that everyone will ... or should. It's just like any other aspect of diving ... we each do it for our own reasons. But fundamentally, those reasons always boil down to "because we want to". Otherwise, why do it?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Abdullah]

... because I want to ...

You're assuming that everyone learns as you apparently do ... by staring at a piece of paper with numbers and words on it. That is a fallacious assumption. Words and numbers convey knowledge ... they do not convey understanding. We all process information in our own way ... some through analysis, some through introspection, some through experience. And while all of those conveyances of information can be useful, each will be more or less useful to a given individual based on that person's inherent learning preferences and abilities. One size never fits all. Dive logs can be useful for some ... particularly those who don't dive very often. They can be repetitious and redundant for others ... particularly those who dive several times a week. That doesn't mean the latter won't find value or fulfillment in maintaining one. It depends entirely on that person's goals and interests.

If your diving improves because of your analysis of data logged on previous dives, that's great. Don't assume that because you get that kind of value out of your dive log that everyone will ... or should. It's just like any other aspect of diving ... we each do it for our own reasons. But fundamentally, those reasons always boil down to "because we want to". Otherwise, why do it?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm not assuming anything. Many (most?) divers are happy with their skill set And many divers are always looking to be a little bit better. For those who are looking for continuous improvement, detailed logbook entries are an aid to improving your diving. Not the only aid - there are mentors, coaches, video, your buddy saying "hey Bob, your trim has been whack lately", etc. A logbook is the one aid that is always at your fingertips.

It is a fact that people are their own worst evaluators. Self perceptions are almost never accurate. Learning by the seat of your pants tends to reinforce bad habits rather than improve skill sets. If experience and talent were enough for a person to improve on their own, there wouldn't be any skills coaches in the NFL.

Don't get me wrong, you have to dive (regularly) to maintain your skills. But if you want to get better, you have to have something other than just going diving to help you identify your weaknesses and improve. It doesn't have to be a logbook, but it needs to be something other than you saying "I'm good".

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

... but a logbook won't tell you anything about your trim ... nor will it help you fix the problem. If you recognize you have issues with skills, the time to address them is now. Writing about it in a logbook won't address the issue, and if you've been diving with this problem long enough that you need a logbook to remind you it exists, then it's likely so ingrained in your skillset that you're going to have to "unlearn" a few mechanics before you can fix it.

I don't know a single diver who writes in their logbook "I really need to work on my trim" ... nor a single instructor who asks to see someone's logbook to determine what defects exist in their skills. As an instructor, I'll do that by watching you dive ... and when I take a class, that's exactly what I expect of the person I hired to help me address my skills problems.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[kaerius]

I'd never turn a diver away from AOW straight after OW, on the simple basis that more experience and training is always better. Ideally if I know a student is there on a long stay I'd try to rope them into doing OW+AOW+Rescue, with some fun dives/specialties thrown in.

Mind you I make sure to work on their dive skills in the OW course, taking my time to make sure their buoyancy control, trim, and finning is good, so I've had compliments from other instructors on how good the student is, when it fell on them to do the AOW course. If it's my own student, I don't generally need to fix them during the AOW.

 

[TSandM]

I don't know a single diver who writes in their logbook "I really need to work on my trim"

Oh, yes, you do, Bob. Here's an entry from my 2005 logbook:

 

[DevonDiver]

Even if not everyone would be requiering it - I dont think it would be buisness suicide for a single/a few shops to require it while others dont - theres quite a lot of people that'd rather not dive with idiots..

Another example:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/general-travel-vacation-discussions/364339-check-dive-scam.html

I notice many dive operators here in the Red Sea area want a "check dive" first in order to dive with them (for 30 Euros or something like that of course), take you to a shallow area to "test" your buoyancy skills. This is regardless of any other proof (AOW card, log books etc.) I have never before heard of this anywhere else. Is this some kind of scam to generate extra revenue?

I did find others of course that did not have this requirement so I dove with them the ones that insisted on check dives lost my business which is too bad for them!

 

[Centrals]

I logged every dive that I did whether it was training or fun so that I can work out where and how much my money had gone.
I remember one check out dive on a liveaboard in Maldives, everyone had to do it disregard of level of training. No question asked.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I logged every dive that I did whether it was training or fun so that I can work out where and how much my money had gone.
I remember one check out dive on a liveaboard in Maldives, everyone had to do it disregard of level of training. No question asked.

I did a checkout dive in the Maldives ... despite the fact that I had more dives and training than the dive guide who evaluated me. He didn't seem to comprehend why I did the whole dive inverted ... which is how I like to view tiny critters on a coral reef. When we came back in he asked me if I needed more weight ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added May 6th, 2013 at 07:25 AM ----------

Oh, yes, you do, Bob. Here's an entry from my 2005 logbook:

... why am I not surprised ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Tigerman]

I did a checkout dive in the Maldives ... despite the fact that I had more dives and training than the dive guide who evaluated me. He didn't seem to comprehend why I did the whole dive inverted ... which is how I like to view tiny critters on a coral reef. When we came back in he asked me if I needed more weight ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Yeah, Ive had that one too, despite NOT having more dives or training than the guides.. Its just more easy to take pictures that way