How different are tec courses agency to agency

[demed]

It doesn't take too much effort to look at the gue website and count 'em up.

And let's be real. Padis tech manual is downright funny. Dudes kneeling on the bottom. Come on guys, get it together!

I have the most respect for GUE and for the way Jarrod runs his agency so tightly with the hardware business and the exploration activities - beautiful vertical integration, if PADI did the same it would get the broken up by the Antitrust like the baby bells. In any other industry or in any dominant position their business practices would raise more than one eyebrow, but for a tiny player there is a lot of leeway.

However, can you remind me how many Rec 1 certifications did GUE issued in its lifetime? Most GUE instructors who lower themselves to teach Open Water do so through other agencies.
If you are so desperate to get real you should realize that if there wasn't PADI (and NAUI, SDI, SSI, CMAS, to name a few) there wouldn't be any certified divers to take Fundies, let alone Tech or Cave.

Sure an agency ensure more consistency if it puts each instructor though the grueling schedule of GUE IT program, but at the same time they can audit a new instructor through 3, 4, 5 classes and co-opt them after extensive peer review only in small numbers. So you have a system that is necessarily ellitist and can't scale very well, requires boutiques and has high COGS. It's hard to sell Gucci bags without lots and lots of marketing, and otherwise they wouldn't have needed a much sought investment last year.

You consider the PADI Tech manual from 2003 downright funny - what about the GUE version of Scubapro Mark 17 rebranded Halcyon for $10 more for 3 blue plastic pieces? Is blue plastic more DIR and safe than black plastic?

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

However, can you remind me how many Rec 1 certifications did GUE issued in its lifetime? Most GUE instructors who lower themselves to teach Open Water do so through other agencies.

I have noticed that. Is it not problematic tho? GUE and UTD train good divers but since their Open Water C-card is not often recognized, they have to issue OW cards from other agencies. I am thinking how difficult would it be for GUE to reach out to top dive operators in Thailand, Maldives, Indonesia and other top destinations and offer to host their website banner on the official GUE website and say that these businesss recognize GUE Open Water and also supply standardized gasses, do not demand that GUE divers wear a dive computer etc. If such a campaign is done for free by GUE and UTD, who would reject a free banner? This can work a long way towards creating global acceptability for these smaller organizations. This could be a business relationship that could work both ways. Thoughts?

 

[rivers]

I have noticed that. Is it not problematic tho? GUE and UTD train good divers but since their Open Water C-card is not often recognized, they have to issue OW cards from other agencies. I am thinking how difficult would it be for GUE to reach out to top dive operators in Thailand, Maldives, Indonesia and other top destinations and offer to host their website banner on the official GUE website and say that these businesss recognize GUE Open Water and also supply standardized gasses, do not demand that GUE divers wear a dive computer etc. If such a campaign is done for free by GUE and UTD, who would reject a free banner? This can work a long way towards creating global acceptability for these smaller organizations. This could be a business relationship that could work both ways. Thoughts?

You do realise that Rec 1 students are also taught bottom times for air as well, no? Even GUE realise that in some places nitrox and trimix are not available.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

You do realise that Rec 1 students are also taught bottom times for air as well, no? Even GUE realise that in some places nitrox and trimix are not available.

Yes I do.

 

[rivers]

Or shops can google recognised scuba certifications if they are presented with a card from an agency they are not familiar with. Brought up a list in about 10 seconds.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

I wrote to a diveshop in Maldives asking them if they would recognize UTD equivalent of AOW. This is the reply I got.

many thanks for your inquiry!
As per Maldivian Government a diver has to have a PADI license or an equivalence.
UTD is not known here. Do you have a PIC card and a logbook with how many registered dives in total?

Best Regards

- -
Britta Tippelt
Managing Director

Sun Dive & Watersports Center
Kanuhura Resort, Maldives
Phone: +960 662 00 44
Mobile: +960 761 38 22
britta@sundivecenter.com
www.sundivecenter.com

They agreed to accept the UTD Rec 2 certification along with a proof of logged dives. It did make me think whether other diveshops around the world would be as accepting as the above one.

 

[Doppler]

I wrote to a diveshop in Maldives asking them if they would recognize UTD equivalent of AOW. This is the reply I got.

many thanks for your inquiry!
As per Maldivian Government a diver has to have a PADI license or an equivalence.
UTD is not known here. Do you have a PIC card and a logbook with how many registered dives in total?

Best Regards

- -
Britta Tippelt
Managing Director

Sun Dive & Watersports Center
Kanuhura Resort, Maldives
Phone: +960 662 00 44
Mobile: +960 761 38 22
britta@sundivecenter.com
www.sundivecenter.com

They agreed to accept the UTD Rec 2 certification along with a proof of logged dives. It did make me think whether other diveshops around the world would be as accepting as the above one.

Interesting... A good reminder to those "American/Canadian centric" folks who post here that aspects of industry norms are not normal everywhere.

 

[eelnoraa]

It's irrelevant what I believe.

Statistics don't require belief- it requires adequate sample size and objective test questions / proper criteria sampling measurements. Unfortunately we have no objective data for the comparison to be meaningful.

I would agree that In sufficiently small groups tighter quality control is possible (GUE)- but you generally can't eliminate the bell curve.

But similarly, with sufficiently larger groups - wider deviance is likely (PADI)- because the sheer numbers afford some greater or lesser degree of separation from the control mechanisms that ensure quality control.


I'd agree that Statistically it's likely that GUE has as a percentage fewer "bad" instructors than PADI.

Similarly - PADI likely has many more good instructors than GUI has instructors, absolutely.

Not sure either really tells us anything on a true scalability chart.

What you and I believe does not matter here because we are NOT the one choosing.

But in the aspect of choosing dive training, what he/she believe is what matters because the statistic you are refering to does NOT exist. Statistics require the collection of data. One can definitely go count PADI and GUE instructor number, but doing a objective servey on the quality of the instructors/training isn't possible at all. This would require the same person taking class from a large group of instructor for the same class. No one is going to do it. Choosing an agency is usually driven by the goal behind the training, could it be a license to go deep, to collect a card, being a better/safer diver .... Then there are constraint: cost, time, a "must" pass, logistics.

So I will ask you this. Your most significant other is asking to where to look to start tech training, and sure you want the best for him/her. Are you going to recommend PADI over GUE?

 

[PfcAJ]

I have the most respect for GUE and for the way Jarrod runs his agency so tightly with the hardware business and the exploration activities - beautiful vertical integration, if PADI did the same it would get the broken up by the Antitrust like the baby bells. In any other industry or in any dominant position their business practices would raise more than one eyebrow, but for a tiny player there is a lot of leeway.

However, can you remind me how many Rec 1 certifications did GUE issued in its lifetime? Most GUE instructors who lower themselves to teach Open Water do so through other agencies.
If you are so desperate to get real you should realize that if there wasn't PADI (and NAUI, SDI, SSI, CMAS, to name a few) there wouldn't be any certified divers to take Fundies, let alone Tech or Cave.

Sure an agency ensure more consistency if it puts each instructor though the grueling schedule of GUE IT program, but at the same time they can audit a new instructor through 3, 4, 5 classes and co-opt them after extensive peer review only in small numbers. So you have a system that is necessarily ellitist and can't scale very well, requires boutiques and has high COGS. It's hard to sell Gucci bags without lots and lots of marketing, and otherwise they wouldn't have needed a much sought investment last year.

You consider the PADI Tech manual from 2003 downright funny - what about the GUE version of Scubapro Mark 17 rebranded Halcyon for $10 more for 3 blue plastic pieces? Is blue plastic more DIR and safe than black plastic?

I don't really care too much about padis ow program. You can go discuss that over in the basic scuba section.

"Gue version" of a regulator? Wut? The main difference isn't the plastic parts but the fact that it comes with a 40 inch hose that's actually useful in a dir config instead of the 32in (I think it's 32) that normally comes with a scubapro reg. so unless you're picking up 10 dollar hoses, whats the cheaper reg?

 

[boulderjohn]

So I will ask you this. Your most significant other is asking to where to look to start tech training, and sure you want the best for him/her. Are you going to recommend PADI over GUE?

Here is the instruction web site of a dive shop that offers tech instruction through GUE, TDI, and PADI. I suspect that the owner of the shop must believe that it is possible to get quality tech instruction from any of those three agencies.

For those readers who are not aware, that shop, Extreme Exposure, is the home of GUE. The shop owner is the founder of GUE.