Anybody else encounter tech arrogance?

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I admire tech divers. Their skills are hard-won, they’ve made a huge investment in time, training, gear, and money. They support super interesting dive shops where I usually buy no more than a stainless bolt snap or a hose. Sometimes what they do is extraordinarily dangerous, and some have lost friends. Some of them like to swagger a bit, but heck, what they do actually IS cool and badass, so I don’t mind. I think they’re awesome.

But just like they are focused in pursuing their goals, I am focused in pursuit of mine, which is to have fun, play, and feel at home in the water as if I were a fish or marine mammal, and forget I’m human for a while. Tech divers have great ideas to learn from, and I like playing with gear, always seeking that invisible gear feeling, so I can wind up looking weirdly part tech, part vintage, part homemade redneck, part freediver. So yeah, I’ve had my gear “explained” to me. The only time I really minded was when this guy from a gear manufacturer kept talking to me as I geared up, telling me I should do my gear differently, and I couldn’t concentrate on getting into my dive headspace. But he actually realized it and later gave me a gift of some weight pockets that are now a feature on my homemade BC. Sometimes people who seem like jerks at first later turn out to be friends.
 
We use to see a lot of that sort a few years ago on this board. When DIR became the big thing, it was fairly common for some of them to take DIR-F (doing it right- fundamentals ) and then become giant horses rears, telling everyone that if they were not doing things a certain way or using specific equipment you were wrong, dangerous and stupid. They loved to call everyone not following the religion "strokes"....we said they were DIR-F'ed" Not all were like that, dove with a lot of great divers who were DIR trained (as am I but I don't follow most of the practice as I only rec dive) who had their head on straight but there were those who ODed on the coolaid and were nothing but pure horses rears. Ignore them and find some decent buddies.
 
When you have an entire community that believes in DIR, the cultic assumption is that everyone else in the world is wrong.

Nah, in this case I think it was just youthful enthusiasm ... the kid was acting like he'd just discovered sex, and wanted to tell everybody how wonderful it was ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
This quote found in the signature of @beester (who hasn't been seen here in a while) was attributed to you, Bob:

You see that in all endeavors ... it's human nature, on the day after losing his virginity, for a guy to strut around acting like he invented sex.

OMG ... and on the very next post, no less ... guess where your friend got that quote from ... :cool:

We've had this conversation many times over the years ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
guess where your friend got that quote from ..
If anyone is looking for corroboration...

I have indeed seen Bob post that many times over many years.
 
my experience is now quite the opposite. story time I met a tech trained diver on a charter when I was doing my AOW he was paired with another woman diving sidemount who he swears up and down she was a fish who didnt even breathe on their dive but anyways I was chatting with him on the boat ride back about misc crap whatever and hes like well heres my number im always up for a dive i replied back with ok cool but you know I have like 30 or so dives right? Im totally a beginner! he answered back with i saw you in the water you looked pretty good some things to improve for sure but you have your own gear and drysuit your obviously interested in the hobby and I was there once and the best thing I did was dive with more experienced divers and I love being in the water. I learned more in the next 3-4 dives with him than I did in the 25 post open water dives.
just last weekend I was invited on a wreck diving weekend through a mutual friend -sounds great! on the ferry ride over to Vancouver Island we start chatting. my buddy and myself are AOW with 50 and 60 dives my friend who was the middle man for the group had about 100 dives the other 3......... well they all have been diving longer than Ive been alive, rebreather instructors all their dives were deco dives ect. my 1 friend had some gear issues and all of the guys helped didnt bitch or complain and were super helpful and totally awesome guys. changed my opinion Id formed from the dive shop and the tech divers there.
my initial impression in the dive shop was similar to yours that tech divers are stuck up individuals but my experiences with them on boats........night and day difference every single one Ive met on a boat has been a solid super helpful diver to those less experienced.
apart from the dive shops Ive yet to meet a tec diver or instructor who I wouldnt call a solid guy
 
I am advanced open water diver with just over 150 dives, mostly in the Pacific, was certified by NAUI in 1992, and also have a PADI wreck certification. I believe I am a safe and competent diver. In my recent travels, I had the “pleasure” recently of preparing to do a 120 foot non-penetration, non-decompression dive on a Central Coast wreck with a tech trained diver with 200 dives who has been diving for 3 years total. (I refer to him as a "tech diver" as he refers to himself, but I believe he took only one such class.) I will leave out his agency, because that is not really the point.

As I was in the area, we both agreed that doing a practice dive prior to this dive was a good idea. I had envisioned that we would work on our preparation as a team, but boy, was I wrong! His condescension started early and never abated. It was clear he felt that as a tech trained diver, he had everything to tell me, I had nothing to tell him, and all my experience was sh_t.

First he told me (before diving with me) that I should get tech training like him, because his training "allowed him to dive to any depth with confidence." He seemed to believe that this 120 foot nonpenetration dive was solely a "tech dive." In fact, my recreational cert covers dives to 130 feet. My very training included a dive to 127 feet.

For the record, I am not opposed to tech training. I’m sure I could learn or polish many valuable skills from it. However, my commitments as a working father do not currently allow this. And after dealing with this guy, I am now less inclined than ever.

Fast-forward to the practice dive.

He laid down the law.

We would use his signals. We would configure our gear as he did.

We would do a deep stop. When I pointed out that deep stops were at best of questionable value, referred him to a DAN article regarding this, he became absolutely irate, and said that unless I did it his way, he would not be diving with me again.

On the subject of bag shooting, I opined that, if we cannot find the anchor line, we should shoot the bag soon after, because if there was a current (likely) it was better to get the bag up early than wait until we were at safety stop depth. He didn't seem to believe that it was possible to not be able to find the anchor line. (In my Pacific diving experience, this is very possible.) He also stated that any current we could just kick into, and that would suffice to keep us in position. (This is also not my experience.) He seemed to be under the impression that shooting a bag was a distress signal. I got the feeling that he did not wish to look bad in front of his tech friends on the boat. (I sort of felt like his buddying with me as a recreational diver was like being stuck taking the ugly girl to the prom—social status, etc.)

On the subject of gas management, when I mentioned the rule of thirds to him, he did not seem to recognize this, or its value. This was very strange to me. I thought the rule of thirds was common knowledge.

I mention the above points not to assert that my way is the right or only way, but rather to illustrate that he seemed to know only what he was told in class, and nothing else. He did not know why he was told what he was told in class. Nor did he tolerate dissent or other ideas, at least from a mere recreational diver like me.

At this point I decided I would not contest his points, but rather go along, as nobody else I knew was interested in a dive this deep. It was dive with this guy, or don’t do the dive at all. For his part, he felt he was doing me a favor. “Most tech divers will not dive with recreational divers,” he said, smugly.

It is not my intention here to critique his diving abilities, but rather his attitude. My attitude towards a dive like this one is one of respect and the need to discuss and prepare for contingencies--thus my interest in doing a practice dive. But he acted as though he knew it all already. His dogmatic adherence to his training, his complete faith in it, his evident contempt for all recreational training, and his arrogance, were all breathtaking (and insufferable.)

I will submit that some of the most accomplished divers, including many on this board, to my knowledge never had any technical training, including for dives far deeper than this one.

Ultimately, because I got a cold, we never did this dive. In our last phone conversation, he told me (for the fourth time) that I should get tech training, and also insinuated that I was an unsafe diver and a bad father if –gasp--I continued to dive without it.

Needless to say I will not be diving with this guy again. This experience has really left a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, once safety standards are met, if we are not diving for fun, what’s the point?

For the record, I am not saying that all or even most tech divers are like this guy. But the whole experience left me wondering just how widespread his kind of "tech arrogance" is, whether this is taught in tech classes, or just acquired naturally, and also made me wonder, if unchecked, how dangerous it could be. Pride goeth before a downfall, etc.

Has anybody else encountered this?


Were you using split fins?
 
I honestly used to see that a lot with nascent DIR fundies graduates. Thankfully it's become less of an issue and ironically the most vocal ones don't actually dive anymore. Even GUE has seemed to move away from the DIR moniker. They eventually move onto other more exciting hobbies/sports like miniature golf or synchronized swimming where they can try to assert their "dominance" or supposed "authority."

Sorry you ran into this person. Diving in general attends to attract a lot of type-a and narcissistic personalities. Don't let this guy ruin your enthusiasm. The ones that bark the most tend to grossly exaggerate their experience and competence, as you found.

This thread doesn't even mention the most common thing I see. :) Tech divers basically bashing on other tech divers because they weren't trained by "their" organization or instructor or even the specific type of gear or rebreather they're diving. I see that way more often than anything.
 
I love the card collector's... And then the dive log counters.... And if course the all new latest and greatest kit divers...
When they open their mouths... I just point out that when I started diving there was no such thing as a tech diver...
Jim....

Depending upon the individual, I point out that I have been diving either longer than they have been living or, if they are somewhat older, longer than they have been able to dress themselves.
 
They eventually move onto other more exciting hobbies/sports like miniature golf or synchronized swimming where they can try to assert their "dominance" or supposed "authority."

I met one who had moved onto water skiing at Club Med last week. His started with technique "I'll tell you the same thing I told your wife, you should...." Me: "My wife is at Zumba, she doesn't ski and maybe watch me first"

He then went on to equipment choices, saying why I should get different ski gloves as mine were no good. Me: "My hands were staring to blister from skiing so much and these are the only ones in the Resort's boutique - huge improvement over bare hands"

So you meet them in all activities.

I should point out he was not a member of the Club Med's staff - who were uniformly excellent.
 

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