Dive computers... SO many choices!

[C Dub]

Average depth, and being able to reset it at the bottom, is useful for adjusting a planned deco profile based on what your actual dive profile was.

 

[stuartv]

Average depth, and being able to reset it at the bottom, is useful for adjusting a planned deco profile based on what your actual dive profile was.

So, if you planned for an average depth of 115' and then you dived the Spiegel Grove and hung around the deck at 95' for 15:00, then dropped down to the sand at 135' for 15:00, your average would be 115'. Perfect.

And you would be okay with using the same ascent plan for that as if you had started on the sand at 135' for 15:00, then ascended to the deck at 95' for 15:00?

If I planned for the former, my ascent plan would be way overly conservative (i.e. too long and use too much gas) for me to want to use it if I ended up diving the latter profile instead.

Thus why I can't see myself ever using average depth for deco planning. On-gassing is not linear.

 

[ls1dreams]

Looks like a promising DC. My initial thoughts:

PROS:
- price
- buhlman alg - especially if we can define the gradients (i'd like to see something like 50/75 even for rec dives)

CONS:
- 2 buttons is better than 1, but 3 would be better. I think you'll find that the "short press 2 buttons" for enter is going to be really annoying.
- the overall layout of the screen just looks really cluttered to me

 

[LandonL]

- buhlman alg - especially if we can define the gradients (i'd like to see something like 50/75 even for rec dives)

The likely 3 available set points will be:
35/75
40/85
45/95

Or something very close, as I want it to coincide with other computers for planning/backup.

- 2 buttons is better than 1, but 3 would be better. I think you'll find that the "short press 2 buttons" for enter is going to be really annoying.

I find the quick press of both to be faster and more intuitive than a separate enter button. You can control the whole device without having to move your hand/fingers, and the buttons are located on the side, so it is easier to manage. I know I can definitely work it faster than my other computers with more than two buttons on the face.

- the overall layout of the screen just looks really cluttered to me

What image are you looking at?

 

[ls1dreams]

The likely 3 available set points will be:
35/75
40/85
45/95

What image are you looking at?

Hmm interesting. One thing I'm wondering - Dr Simon Mitchell recommends around 50/75 for usage, but I'm not sure if that's also helpful for rec limits or only for deco dives. I'm just coming to understand the models, but to me it seems like something in the 50-60 lo range and the lowest possible hi range is what would work best.
Please please please give us the option to manually set gradients, even if it's hidden setting.

Regarding the screen clutter, I just find something like this to be information overload with no padding/spacing between anything:

DEEP SIX - DEEP SIX added a new photo. | Facebook

Why I think it could be better:
- alignments are all over the place
- unnecessary "N2 loading" text
- time/temp in middle with a different "font" and not much vertical spacing. Maybe have the ability to hide this?
- Max Ft is pressed right up against the mode
- Why is the mode in such giant text?

I'm no UX designer, but to me this just feels cluttered. Maybe you could add a simple screen display mode that has only the basics - current depth, NDL time left, and a place to indicate stops? Those are the most important metrics but seem to be not the center of focus. Currently only ~ 20% of the entire screen is dedicated to those 2 critical readings.

 

[stuartv]

Hmm interesting. One thing I'm wondering - Dr Simon Mitchell recommends around 50/75 for usage, but I'm not sure if that's also helpful for rec limits or only for deco dives. I'm just coming to understand the models, but to me it seems like something in the 50-60 lo range and the lowest possible hi range is what would work best.

The "lowest possible hi range" would be something like 10 - as long as it is not lower than GF Lo. I.e. You could have GF 10/10 - but that would be ridiculous. Or you could have GF 50/50 or 60/60. But, again, that would be exttremely conservative.

I asked Dr Mitchell why not just use GF80/80 (instead of the 50/80 that he said he uses)? His response boiled down to saying there is no current science to say that 80/80 would be worse than 50/80. But, there is nothing to say that it IS better, either, and it's such a big departure from what most people have been actually doing successfully that he wouldn't recommend it just because of that.

 

[LandonL]

it seems like something in the 50-60 lo range and the lowest possible hi range is what would work best.

Would take a lot of explaining, but no that is definitely not an optimal setting, at least not for a recreational computer. No other manufacturer uses anything close, and I want our dive/deco profiles to be similar to other brands, within a margin, so if someone is using two different computers, they will get similar profiles.

Please please please give us the option to manually set gradients, even if it's hidden setting.

This is a $140 recreational computer. We will be providing 3-4 presets, but if you would like to control the gradient factor hi/low settings manually, we will be releasing a tech computer later. Giving a recreational diver complete control over setting gradient factors 0-100 really isn't a good idea, that is definitely more in the technical realm.

Regarding the screen clutter, I just find something like this to be information overload with no padding/spacing between anything:

Why I think it could be better:
- alignments are all over the place
- unnecessary "N2 loading" text
- time/temp in middle with a different "font" and not much vertical spacing. Maybe have the ability to hide this?
- Max Ft is pressed right up against the mode
- Why is the mode in such giant text?

I'm no UX designer, but to me this just feels cluttered. Maybe you could add a simple screen display mode that has only the basics - current depth, NDL time left, and a place to indicate stops? Those are the most important metrics but seem to be not the center of focus.

Ah! You are looking at a surface mode screen, not a dive screen, it changes underwater. Alignments are symmetrical based on the LCD design, the reason you see different fonts is that part of the LCD is dot matrix (center bar), and top/bottom are segmental. There is limited real estate, you have to utilize it wherever you can. If you want a completely adjustable dot matrix or color, it would cost a bit more... unfortunately we can't integrate an LCD like that at this price point. Mode is in large text, because it is displayed in the segmental section, and not dot matrix. If we move the dive mode to the dot matrix, there is no where to display the time/temp.

Entire screen layout:

Dive mode example, currently doing a stop:

 

[stuartv]

Would take a lot of explaining, but no that is definitely not an optimal setting, at least not for a recreational computer. No other manufacturer uses anything close, and I want our decompression profiles to be similar to other brands, within a margin, so if someone is using two different computers, they will get similar profiles.


This is a $140 recreational computer. We will be providing 3-4 presets, but if you would like to control the gradient factor hi/low settings manually, we will be releasing a tech computer later. Giving a recreational diver complete control over setting gradient factors 0-100 really isn't a good idea, that is definitely more in the technical realm.

I think having presets that match Shearwater OC Rec mode is a good idea.

But, I am unconvinced that it's a problem to give recreational divers the ability to do custom settings. If you simply limited GF Hi to a range of 60 - 95, and, of course, required that GF Lo cannot be set higher than GF Hi, then the most aggressive setting anyone could use is GF95/95, which would make it about the same as an Oceanic or Aeris computer running DSAT. I.e. not "dangerous" for a recreational diver. Shearwater allows a max GF Hi of 99, but I definitely don't see anything wrong with a rec computer being limited to a max of GF 95.

And a min GF Hi of GF 60 (or thereabouts) would keep the diver from setting it so low that they end up with some ridiculous amount of deco obligation by accident (e.g. if they set GF Hi to 40 and then stayed down with a buddy to the NDL of the buddy's computer).

 

[ls1dreams]

You are looking at a surface mode screen, not a dive screen, it changes underwater. Alignments are symmetrical based on the LCD design, the reason you see different fonts is that part of the LCD is dot matrix (center bar), and top/bottom are segmental. There is limited real estate, you have to utilize it wherever you can. If you want a completely adjustable dot matrix or color, prepare to pay a lot more... unfortunately we can't integrate an LCD like this at that price point. Mode is in large text, because it is displayed in the segmental section, and not dot matrix. If we move the dive mode to the dot matrix, there is no where to display the time/temp.

I definitely get the technical limitations. Dive mode does look better than surface mode for sure with a bigger emphasis on the No Deco Time. Appreciate the stop time showing seconds - I hate that the Suunto's show stops only in minutes without seconds.

While it's a little off-topic, I'd love to hear what you guys think is the safest gradient set for rec diving. I don't care about aggressive times. I'm a little unsure given your 3 sets because according to that lecture a higher "high gradient" is better, but of the choices given, it also means that the "lo gradient" also ends up a lot higher, which would mean more super-saturation at the surface!

I understand the hi gradient pretty clearly, but don't understand all of the limitations around the lo gradient.

 

[ls1dreams]

I think having presets that match Shearwater OC Rec mode is a good idea.

But, I am unconvinced that it's a problem to give recreational divers the ability to do custom settings. If you simply limited GF Hi to a range of 60 - 95, and, of course, required that GF Lo cannot be set higher than GF Hi, then the most aggressive setting anyone could use is GF95/95, which would make it about the same as an Oceanic or Aeris computer running DSAT. I.e. not "dangerous" for a recreational diver. Shearwater allows a max GF Hi of 99, but I definitely don't see anything wrong with a rec computer being limited to a max of GF 95.

Do you have any idea of roughly what kind of gradients the Oceanic/Aeris run in their Z+ alg?