So if you are local you did contact the Suwannee County Sheriff's dept to see if they have gotten the report from the ME,because at this point it is still considered a crime until deemed otherwise,which is a reason why the IUCRR can't report.
Orange Grove fatality?
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bamafan
Contributor
Well I am not in the medical field but I would bet everything I own that the cause of death will be drowning. There may have been an underlying heart issue brought on by panic but the guy drowned. The ME will not come out and say that the 2 didn't run a reel, the intro diver was tagging along with a full cave diver who is an instructor so he felt safe and that when the crap hit the fan they both pannicked and the full cave diver left his buddy for some reason. Just like in the Eagle's Nest incident the guys were doing a dive they weren't qualified for. There is a big difference between qualification and certification.
The short and dirty of it is no one will publish that or do accident analysis because it is bad for business. In the industry there is a big push to sell certs and gear. When you see divers who have only been ow certified 3 years and now they are cave diving with scooters and rebreathers there is an issue but it won't be addressed because people put money first and turning out quality divers second.
Someone can tell me I am wrong but as technology keeps increasing and it becomes easier to do these dives it will become more common place. All the money and gear in the world can't supress fear and panic. The only thing that can do that is experience.
As long as the agencies keep ignoring this and blame it on stuff like the line in the EN incident nothing will change. Hold the instructors accoutable for cranking out certs.
The short and dirty of it is no one will publish that or do accident analysis because it is bad for business. In the industry there is a big push to sell certs and gear. When you see divers who have only been ow certified 3 years and now they are cave diving with scooters and rebreathers there is an issue but it won't be addressed because people put money first and turning out quality divers second.
Someone can tell me I am wrong but as technology keeps increasing and it becomes easier to do these dives it will become more common place. All the money and gear in the world can't supress fear and panic. The only thing that can do that is experience.
As long as the agencies keep ignoring this and blame it on stuff like the line in the EN incident nothing will change. Hold the instructors accoutable for cranking out certs.
Jack Hammer
Contributor
I think those waiting for a report by the IUCRR need to understand the IUCRRs purpose is to aid law enforcement in collecting facts at the scene of an underwater accident in a cave and to assist in body recovery. They are there to help law enforcement, who are often unable to safely enter caves and collect data/retrieve bodies as part of an active investigation.
Their purpose is not to publish accident reports for divers. What, if anything, they release to us is only after law enforcement has completed and closed their investigation and is done as a courtesy for us divers.
*** I am not a representative of the IUCRR and do not speak for them. I have attended presentations by the IUCRR.***
Personally, I would like to see more information released. I understand why it's not.
Their purpose is not to publish accident reports for divers. What, if anything, they release to us is only after law enforcement has completed and closed their investigation and is done as a courtesy for us divers.
*** I am not a representative of the IUCRR and do not speak for them. I have attended presentations by the IUCRR.***
Personally, I would like to see more information released. I understand why it's not.
I agree the ME will only identify cause of death,but the key point is there is an ongoing process. The poster said he was local and wanted to know more information. Until everything is released to law enforcement and they indicate there was no crime and issue a final report, then we more likely won't hear more. These things don't happen at cave diving forum speed,but at their own speed.
I agree technology is an issue that cave diving needs to address, and marketing does play a role. As I have mentioned the intro/basic cave level had far less accidents at the single tank level than where it is now. I have noticed over the years different training agencies removing restrictions of what one could do, to make themselves more attractive to students. Eg I chose agency ABC because I can dive doubles to x and do one jump versus agency that won't.
Where I respectfully disagree is,"holding the instuctors accountable for cranking out certs". I think personal responsibility of the divers still apply. For example, I took drivers education when I was 16. One person in my class of 25 took his dad's car and drove very fast resulting in a wreck,where he suffered a traumatic brain injury. Sorry I can't hold the instructor responsible, and the accident victim knew he was doing wrong.
Thanks Kelly. I should have guessed the lack of info was related to an ongoing investigation. What I meant by close to home is that this type of diving (intro) level affects a much larger group of divers of which I am a part. I honestly thought because of the extensive valuable information and discussion that resulted from the more recent tragic event, that recovery information shared was totally at the discretion of those whom courageously and selflessly perform the rescue.
Perhaps if the IUCRR acknowledged that the response to the emergency was indeed from them (pending) or some such language it could do a lot to quell the rumor mill and speculation that obviously takes its toll on some of the volunteers that we as divers hold in such high regard. However from post #143 I now understand that they are under no obligation to do so.
Perhaps if the IUCRR acknowledged that the response to the emergency was indeed from them (pending) or some such language it could do a lot to quell the rumor mill and speculation that obviously takes its toll on some of the volunteers that we as divers hold in such high regard. However from post #143 I now understand that they are under no obligation to do so.
wgw04024
Contributor
It looks like this incident is 42 days old roughly. What would be the reasoning for holding back information at this point? Is there a criminal investigation ongoing? If the diver was under instruction, is there some sort of liability issue? I did read up on the iucrr. It doesn't look like it's a paid law enforcement agency, so why wouldn't the volunteers be willing to at least report what they saw or found at some point after the incident?
Now that I think about it the lack of information and resultant attention to this incident is probably a good thing. We get to keep diving the site, nobody is bemoaning the sport, and our courageous volunteers can go about the business of diving rather than trying to explain in court what they meant when they said such and such.
I have gleaned enough information from discussing this tragic incident to improve the training I provide to my students.
While there is more to learn from this incident that can benefit the safety of the sport. In the meantime, divers, when you put on SCUBA be self responsible. Have a questioning attitude. Stop when unsure. Be mindful of first time evolution of the level of diving you are undertaking. And as it relates to this tragedy, learn your gear configuration in open water.
I have gleaned enough information from discussing this tragic incident to improve the training I provide to my students.
While there is more to learn from this incident that can benefit the safety of the sport. In the meantime, divers, when you put on SCUBA be self responsible. Have a questioning attitude. Stop when unsure. Be mindful of first time evolution of the level of diving you are undertaking. And as it relates to this tragedy, learn your gear configuration in open water.
KevinNM
Contributor
I'm not at all familiar with the experience of the two divers who dies at Eagle's Nest, but I haven't noticed anyone else question their qualifications. The description of the accident makes it sound more like they had a really bad day and several things went bad on them rather than they had no business being there.
bamafan
Contributor
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but the guys who have been doing exploration in Eagle's Nest have posted otherwise on Facebook and CDF. If they didn't panic then how do you explain them leaving behind all that equipment that would have gotten them out of the cave. If you think they did panic then what caused it in your opinion. The CDS has also cut the line back so that it is no longer a T. What would be the reasoning for this then?
PfcAJ
Contributor
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