Orange Grove fatality?

[PfcAJ]

So.......
Did you ever go back later and ask for records?
Have you ever asked the law enforcement professionals that developed these protocols-why and what for?
Are you familiar with protocols that were developed initially by Henry Nicholson and refined by other cave diving law enforcement officers?

I'm not going to ask for records that I wrote. Duh.

I didn't "ask" them but I think it's clear that police dive teams aren't in a position to do cave recoveries.

I don't know what was initially developed but I'm somewhat familiar with the current protocols.

 

[karstdvr]

I'm not going to ask for records that I wrote. Duh.

.

But your report is only a little part of the whole investigation, and sounds like your really haven't looked at the big picture. There have been a couple recoveries that after the police investigation there have been other causative factors. Perhaps why you are down on cave accident reporting is because you are not getting the complete picture,when the recovery is only a small part of the picture. Since you are anti-IUCRR, perhaps you need to speak to them and understand their process and why things have evolved the way they have. Once you've done this, and you don't agree, then condemn it.

 

[PfcAJ]

But your report is only a little part of the whole investigation, and sounds like your really haven't looked at the big picture. There have been a couple recoveries that after the police investigation there have been other causative factors. Perhaps why you are down on cave accident reporting is because you are not getting the complete picture,when the recovery is only a small part of the picture. Since you are anti-IUCRR, perhaps you need to speak to them and understand their process and why things have evolved the way they have. Once you've done this, and you don't agree, then condemn it.

Ok Kelly tell me the big picture? You keep speaking in generalities and mysterious "there have been" wannabe examples with no specifics.

Iucrr used to provide the data they recovered publicly. Now they don't. Lessons that could be learned now cannot be learned. That's a huge disservice to the cave diving community who's rules were built on analyzing accidents and improving what was taught to try and prevent the same things from happening again.

 

[karstdvr]

Ok Kelly tell me the big picture? You keep speaking in generalities and mysterious "there have been" wannabe examples with no specifics.

Iucrr used to provide the data they recovered publicly. Now they don't. Lessons that could be learned now cannot be learned. That's a huge disservice to the cave diving community who's rules were built on analyzing accidents and improving what was taught to try and prevent the same things from happening again.

I speak in generalities because some things are not appropriate for publication on a public forum,plus I am not in law enforcement to give you a good credible answer. I am an area person for IUCRR,but I think your edification needs to come from someone like Lamar Hires or Ken Hill,plus it gives you additional place for you to vent your frustration,but with a real time explanation. I highly value your opinion as someone with a lot of experience to back up your points,but I think in this area your knowledge is deficient, and you would do yourself a favor to get more information. We can either continue a volley of postings,or you can contact these highly approachable people, and be content with the answer, or damn them for time eternal.

 

[LiteHedded]

when we did that recovery it was pretty clear that there's a big fear of litigation, but i dunno why specifically. but i'm happy to keep quiet and avoid having to give a lawyer any of my money.

having done these recoveries both ways it's interesting to see the different approaches.

 

[Storker]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

I have serious problems seeing how this - let's be polite and call it "discussion" - is promoting safe diving through the examination and discussion of accidents and incidents; to find lessons we can apply to our own diving.

So take this sidetrack about the liabilities of recovery divers somewhere else. If anyone should still be in doubt over what is and what isn't appropriate here in A&I, there's always the Special Rules for the Accidents and Incidents Forum

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[seanmeboy]

Been awhile and still nothing from iucrr. Learned much more in a shorter time from the EN incident. Anyone have anything besides rumors? This one is close to home, Thanks

 

[bamafan]

Been awhile and still nothing from iucrr. Learned much more in a shorter time from the EN incident. Anyone have anything besides rumors? This one is close to home, Thanks

Did you really think we would?

 

[The Chairman]

First rule of Scuba applies: Don't hold your breath.

 

[cerich]

My impression is that when a recovery occurs and it seems there may be factors beyond simply strictly speaking an accident that we(non involved) see less because the perception in the ICURR is that anybody who says anything will end up testifying in the event of a lawsuit with the accompanying time of work etc. Based on comments I have seen from a few recovery divers the expectation is that Ken Hill who runs the ICURR will generally be the only ICURR person to need to testify unless the recovery diver posts on social media at which time they will get pulled in to testify and maybe even sued personally by possibility the family of the deceased. My 2 psi is that train of thought doesn't pass the sniff test.

However, if that is what is believed I can understand some of what we have seen as far as reports. I disagree with the reasoning.