3 Divers lost on the Spiegel Grove

[cgvmer]

http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates/2007/03/three_die_in_florida_scuba_acc.html

My condolences to the family and friends of these divers

 

[jeandiver]

Every time I go on a cave dive I say:
"Lord , keep me prudent , ALWAYS PRUDENT!"

Dang it all ...
We lost another cave diver this weekend too in Madison blue due to a possible health condition.

Man oh man...Too many losses lately.

I agree on the No Scuba Police thing. The most important thing we have to prevent things like this is own OWN BRAINS!

My prayers to all of the families.

Jean
Fort White , Florida

 

[wardric]

There should be dive law that if you go into wreck/cave/etc etc you must use rope (dive reel) there is just no excuse what-so-ever if you been in the business long anough you to have heard/known smoeone die due to it. Unless you know the wreck/cave/etc like the back of your hand and if this is true that the divers here did not bring ropes then I really feel sorry such ashame and the sad thing one of the divers who was not in charge problay had no idea what was going on until the end again sorry for lose if anyone knew these divers.

Always descending,
C.H.

then you're gonna need a scuba police...

 

[cgvmer]

I am very new to diving, but do have experience in other areas where root cause is investigated. I am really looking only for one thing, How to mitigate the cause of this accident and help others be safe. Sometimes that means blame is laid on one of the victims, sometimes not. In a sport with inherent danger, I would hope that the search for answers is NOT for a big financial payoff, but rather for the future safety of others in the sport.

Damm now I have to hide the front page of my local paper, or my wife will be fighting me each time I want to dive with my children..

 

[jeandiver]

Er , if you say you ALWAYS have to use lines etc in overhead penetration...

So you bring reel(s) along.

You have to USE them. Unclip them and run the line.

Again , it's the BRAIN that needs to be policed , not the lines.

As cavers we are trained to ALWAYS have a line to open water. But having the training and USING THE LINE are two different things.

Jean
Fort White , Florida

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

Exactly! Everytime something BAD happens people jump in and start the "we need a law" crap!

Why do you think that we need to take off our shoes when we get on a plane? Why do you think baby seats in cars rival seats on the Space Shuttle? God help us if someone tried to take down a plane with a CD player or a book!

Diving does NOT need the "Scuba Police"! When you sign up for this, you also sign up for the risks involved! Everytime I get into the water, I know there's a risk, and I have to be smart enough to know what not to do, where not to go, and attempt to dive with people that I can rely upon in emergency situations, but bottom line...it's my butt on the line, and I have to make the smart decisions based upon my training.

If these poor guys had the proper training and something went horribly wrong, no matter how unfortunate it may be, it's their fault, if they didn't have the proper training, then it's still their fault!

Sorry for the rant....

In the ideal world, this is all true...in the real world, it isn't. If a surgeon loses three patients in one day, or a flight school has three crashes in one week, simply asserting "surgery is dangerous!" or "the pilots were stupid, it's their fault!" or "they all knew the risks, they signed waivers!" will not prevent external agencies from coming down like a ton of bricks --- even if these assertions are all entirely valid. These deaths are national news... the fuss may blow over. IF, however, another SG death or deaths were to occur anytime soon, the media vultures will swarm there... remember the pit bull scare? The breed was almost OUTLAWED over a handful of incidents because of media glare, even though it is by far not the most dangerous breed to humans.

I am NOT in favor of more regulation. I AM simply pointing out that the dive community must be especially cautious about giving the appearance that a) diving is more dangerous than it is, b) the dive community is too incestuous to criticize or police itself, and c) that we accept anything less from rec diving than a zero accident rate. If we don't the government will step in.

The general tone of this thread has been: diving is dangerous, condolences to the families.

The tone should be; three of our community died on a pleasure dive and that, under any circumstances, is entirely unacceptable.

 

[JayJudge]

Not to fight, but-just using a reel does not ensure safety inside a wreck. Any wreck- and I mean any, can have sharp spots-coral, rusted metal etc that can cut a line. Or they can slip under parts that used to be walls, get hidden in ways that make it impossible to find the trail home. The best idea is to use a combination of pregressive penetration and a reel, and accurate plans as the wreck sits now. These divers' loss is a sad event, but one that people should learn from. Even if you have the training to do the dive, you do have to apply it. And be geared properly.
-Jay

 

[diver 85]

Folks I am fairly new to this board but not to diving.......I made an assessment a week or 2 ago(after reading of the # of deaths from diving) & we are many times pushing the envelope in our sport.....I am saddened to (again) here of these accidents, my condolences go out to these divers' family & AGAIN I'll say maybe something can be learned from their mistakes....Be careful everyone & remember your training, it WILL save your life one day........

 

[waterpirate]

Seemingly preventible accidents are always the most tragic. Condolences to the real victims, these divers family and friends.

That being said, a dive op is just a taxi ride. If you need or expect more from them than that, you should really assess your skill level for the planned dive.

I do not ever want to be baby sat by a divemaster or dive op. I also do not want to have my gear policed prior to a dive. I am heading to florida in three days to dive, I am planning only rec. limit dives. I hope that I am not chastised for bpw with slung pony and reel.

"dive free or die"
Eric

 

[DanBMW]

Not to fight, but-just using a reel does not ensure safety inside a wreck. Any wreck- and I mean any, can have sharp spots-coral, rusted metal etc that can cut a line. Or they can slip under parts that used to be walls, get hidden in ways that make it impossible to find the trail home. The best idea is to use a combination of pregressive penetration and a reel, and accurate plans as the wreck sits now. These divers' loss is a sad event, but one that people should learn from. Even if you have the training to do the dive, you do have to apply it. And be geared properly.
-Jay

Thanks Jay - Good summery. Great advise. Nothing is guaranteed.