Accepting Responsibility for Your Own Safety

[MaxBottomtime]

Yes. It's like when you first get a driver's license. There's a period of time when you have a training license, and aren't supposed to drive without an experienced driving in the car with you.
I don't think anybody who has only done OW is qualified to dive without a DM. Not me, and not anybody else either. And SB members are welcome to tell me I'm incompetent, or dumb, or didn't pay attention in class, etc. But I disagree. Nobody fresh out of driver's ed is qualified to drive with only another fresh driver, and nobody fresh out of OW is qualified to dive only with another new OW graduate buddy.

I think I understand what is causing your confusion. You are mixing up a driver's license with an OW certificate. When a new driver gets a learner's permit he is allowed to drive under certain conditions with a licensed driver. Once you get your license you are free to drive solo on any public road.
An open water certificate allows you to dive in conditions similar to your training, no matter who you dive with. My late wife and I got certified together and made more than 600 dives together, all without a DM. Every diver I know gets certified and goes out diving with anyone who will dive with them. Perhaps you should join a local dive club and see how much diving is done without a DM.

 

[gcarter]

I think I understand what is causing your confusion. You are mixing up a driver's license with an OW certificate. When a new driver gets a learner's permit he is allowed to drive under certain conditions with a licensed driver. Once you get your license you are free to drive solo on any public road.
An open water certificate allows you to dive in conditions similar to your training, no matter who you dive with. My late wife and I got certified together and made more than 600 dives together, all without a DM. Every diver I know gets certified and goes out diving with anyone who will dive with them. Perhaps you should join a local dive club and see how much diving is done without a DM.

After my cert, my next 28 dives were done with a buddy, no DM. 2 of those were boat dives where we were given a briefing but nobody entered the water with us.

9 supervised dives constituted our AOW / Deep weekend. Of 6 dives since then, we have been accompanied by a guide / experienced diver / not necessarily a DM on 3 of 4 LDS organized dives - each of those was the first time at a new site, and we were given the nickel tour, not babysat, just part of a larger group but still a buddy pair.

I am still not happy with my skill level (buoyancy is a work in progress, as is consumption) but I certainly don't feel that I need a DM. I dive within my skills and comfort level.

 

[EastEndDiver]

I believe Matt was certified Rescue Diver at Sunset House on Grand Cayman here is a quote from another of his posts;

"Then Jaxx told me I'm a rescue diver. Very nice feeling, sense of accomplishment.

By the way, Jaxx is a fabulous rescue diver instructor. If you're thinking of getting this certification, I highly recommend her."

I would question any certification given by Sunset House at this point especially by Jaxx.

 

[mathauck0814]

I believe Matt was certified Rescue Diver at Sunset House on Grand Cayman here is a quote from another of his posts;

"Then Jaxx told me I'm a rescue diver. Very nice feeling, sense of accomplishment.

By the way, Jaxx is a fabulous rescue diver instructor. If you're thinking of getting this certification, I highly recommend her."

I would question any certification given by Sunset House at this point especially by Jaxx.

That might be unfair. Unless all of Matt's certifications were with Jaxx or there are other threads where people have cited Jaxx as being a poor instructor. Matt has demonstrated in several posts that he has a ... different ... attitude about training. I'd not go shooting the dive center just yet.

 

[EastEndDiver]

I feel that any instructor who would certify someone "Rescue Diver" who still needs a DM to tell them to add or subtract air to their BC and also monitor depth and air has done that student and the dive community a dis-service and created a dangerous situation.Thats just my opinion.

 

[mathauck0814]

I feel that any instructor who would certify someone "Rescue Diver" who still needs a DM to tell them to add or subtract air to their BC and also monitor depth and air has done that student and the dive community a dis-service and created a dangerous situation.Thats just my opinion.

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I believe Matt was certified Rescue Diver at Sunset House on Grand Cayman here is a quote from another of his posts;

"Then Jaxx told me I'm a rescue diver. Very nice feeling, sense of accomplishment.

By the way, Jaxx is a fabulous rescue diver instructor. If you're thinking of getting this certification, I highly recommend her."

I would question any certification given by Sunset House at this point especially by Jaxx.

Jaxx has one bad student, or is it the students attitude toward diving that's the problem. How many universities turn out bad students (doctors, lawyers, engineers) every year! Do we condemn them also? Matt probably was a good student because he had someone there to lead him, it's when he's on his on that there's a problem. I definitely would have to talk to some of Jaxx's other students before making that decision.

 

[redacted]

I feel that any instructor who would certify someone "Rescue Diver" who still needs a DM to tell them to add or subtract air to their BC and also monitor depth and air has done that student and the dive community a dis-service and created a dangerous situation.Thats just my opinion.

Would an instructor in a Rescue Course really see the diver's skills in buoyancy and monitoring depth?

 

[EastEndDiver]

After reading through this thread I am thinking they possibly did,Sunset House is a small operation and I would guess the Instructors/DM's talk to each other:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/gr...da/415613-matts-trip-report-sunset-house.html

Again it is my opinion.

 

[rob@diveinutila.com]

At no point is a divemaster trained, employed or intended to be a wet-nurse for qualified divers. Such beliefs should be dispelled. They are there to ensure that the divers are doing things properly and to provide specific information to enable divers to dive independently. Nothing more, nothing less.

Absolutely correct. I don't think the OP understands the remit of a divemaster and therein lies a common problem and one that may actually have some kind of legal footing (those with legal knowledge could tell me yay or nay to that?).

The problem as I see it is two fold. The first and very significant issue is that the worlds most popular open water training courses consist of only 4 OW dives which are all conducted with an instructor (of course). For many people that could mean less than 2 hours dive experience. I don't want to get into the merits of different approaches and training methods from different instructors. It is simply a fact to say that most people get certified with minimal underwater experience. Do these newbies have the experience to dive independently, make good judgement calls, not get disoriented (without even realizing they have!), probably the best decision they can make is to hire a DM to come along with them until they feel they have that experience.

I advice my divemaster trainees that during their general briefing of dive procedures to specifically mention that unless directly contacted and asked for assistance their divers should not expect help to be forthcoming. They are not there to directly supervise the divers, they are their to provide logistical support, guide underwater, and give enough information about the dive, the site and the conditions to allow the divers to make informed decisions about the dive.

It is an important statement to make because most novice divers believe that the DM is there to also watch over their safety (just like the instructor in their OW class was). But a DM does not have any training or requirement for direct supervision.

The diver and DM have entered into some form of contract when the DM's service is purchased and as in any professional service their is a professional liability. So the statement about what service is actually being provided becomes very important but in my experience rarely delivered.