Actual Emergency Rescues???

[nitroxbabe]

Well somebody there needs to watch the class of newbies don't they?

I guess the other qualified people should assist me and/or get to a phone to call 911. Would that be a more appropriate answer?

 

[MikeS]

devilfish once bubbled...
On of them was inflating his bc to the point of the overfllow valve burping. He looked exhaused.

The first step would be to make sure they were positively buoyant and floating face up.

Why were they overfilling the BC, were they over weighted and struggling to get positive or over inflated and fighting it? Did they have back inflation or jacket style BC? Were they in a wet suit or drysuit?

Unless there was some contraindication, I would dump their weights to get them positive.

Then check for breathing!

Are they breathing? If so is the regulator in their mouth? If so do they have ample air supply?

If they’re breathing, calmly tow them to shore while someone monitors their breathing.

If the reg is in their mouth, as long as they’re breathing, leave it there, it let’s air in and keeps water out!

If their mask is on, leave it on, it keeps water out!

Only 200 feet from shore I’d leave the BC/SCUBA on. Taking it off spends precious time and the tank valve makes a great towing hook allowing you to keep them face up. I find it hard to tow a diver without a BC/SCUBA when I have mine on.

If they’re not breathing, I would get them to shore as fast as possible. I know that’s not the PADI rescue line but if nothing else the training convinced me that CPR in the water is not practical. I can swim pretty fast, even towing a second diver, for only 200 feet. With another diver to help I think we would be at shore in less than a minute.

 

[Kaffphine]

We're looking at an incomplete sceen, I got some questions.

*You said there were four divers in the group coming at you. One is the victium, how are the other three?

*The class you're with, they are lifting objects. I assume they are not an OW class, but not trained in rescue... yes?

*Do we have people [we know] on shore?

*what for first aid gear is directly available (shop truck or personal) - O2, rich nitrox mix?

 

[Drew Sailbum]

Many fairly routine. Panic at the surface happens a lot.

Underwater problems leading to runaway ascents occasionally happen. Stuck inflator buttons from poor gear maintainence twice. I have seen weight pouches dropped several times, and one of those ascents resulted in a DCS hit which presented only once back at the dock. Full Oxygen and first aid response, ems and a chamber ride later and all was well.

One diver collapsed and lost conciousness a couple minutes after a dive. He was getting out of his wetsuit and it was entirely unclear if he tripped or another problem happened, but he ended up with a nasty head wound when his skull hit the curb. No oxygen at that scene, but he got first aid and the only bottle of nitrox 36 to breathe and an ambulance responded and transported.

The worst was at a popular shore dive site at a ferry terminal. An instructor (woman) surfaced a diver (man) who lost conciousness some 60ft down. They surfaced 30 yards from a 30 foot high seawall and she screamed for help. Her entire group were certified divers, and they proceeded toward the nearest exit point which was about 120 yards down the shore. Patient was an obese male, approximately 55 years of age and he had no pulse and was not breathing. About 10 instructors were on scene on shore. Any takers? If it helps, there is a small food stand 50 yards away from the exit with no phone, and a restaurant 300 yards away with phones. <<Hint. Hint.>>

 

[dc4bs]

devilfish once bubbled...
I was conducting a class, we were lifting objects from the bottom with lift bags. I had my class in a group debriefing on the surface about 200 ft from shore. I keep hearing brrrr, brrrrrrr, brrrrrr, some where behind me. As I turn around there are four divers swimming. On of them was inflating his bc to the point of the overfllow valve burping. He looked exhaused. I swam to him and asked if hes ok. At that point his head went down and went unconcious. What would you do? I did have another instructor and a dm helping me with my class.
Clue, we did an ambulance and he was taken away by ems.

While I agree about not removing the BC (just dump weight for the swim in), make sure that the BC is not too tight. If it's a jacket style and was worn snug to begin with and then fully inflated due to diver panic or for some other reason, it could contribute to the problem by making it harder for the victim to breath. This may be one possible contibutor to the fact the diver has lost consiousness. It could certainly contribute to panic and feelings of air starvation.

I'm not sure from the description above, was he part of the class or just happen to be diving the same area? Did he have anything atached to his BC instead of a lift bag?

 

[SMan]

Great post. I hope this thread continues. I am planning on taking Rescue Diver this coming summer. Since I dive with my wife and daughters I am continually watching over them while still trying to make sure that they become confident, independent divers. Please continue with the scenarios and how to deal with them.

Thanks,
S

 

[bwerb]

MikeS once bubbled...


If they’re not breathing, I would get them to shore as fast as possible. I know that’s not the PADI rescue line but if nothing else the training convinced me that CPR in the water is not practical. I can swim pretty fast, even towing a second diver, for only 200 feet. With another diver to help I think we would be at shore in less than a minute.

I'll assume you meant "rescue breathing" not Cardio Pulmonary Respiration to start the heart. Since 6 minutes or so without oxygen equals permanent brain injury, I think that performing rescue breaths every 5 seconds or so is still imperative. You mentioned another diver for help, even better, one of you breathes, the other tows or pushes. The extra couple minutes you take to swim the 200 feet could be the difference between diving again and resembling a salad.

Just a thought.

 

[MikeS]

bwerb once bubbled...


I'll assume you meant "rescue breathing" not Cardio Pulmonary Respiration to start the heart. Since 6 minutes or so without oxygen equals permanent brain injury, I think that performing rescue breaths every 5 seconds or so is still imperative. You mentioned another diver for help, even better, one of you breathes, the other tows or pushes. The extra couple minutes you take to swim the 200 feet could be the difference between diving again and resembling a salad.

Just a thought.

I want to make clear that I am not a medical professional and in no way should this be considered as medical advice. There are a couple of issues here.

First off if the heart has stopped, any breathing assistance is a waste of time and delays the start of full CPR.

Secondly, I think that effective rescue breathing is difficult if not impossible, just maintaining an open airway is going to be extremely difficult, remember that any water is going to make the airway slam shut!. I’ve not seen any statistics on the effectiveness of rescue breathing but I suspect it’s very low, not that I wouldn’t try like hell if that was the only option. If you can get to shore in a couple of minutes, you’re better off getting to shore, or the boat, where you can start effective CPR, plus you can take advantage of other resources like oxygen that are not available in the water. You have to make a judgment call based on how far you are from shore.

Mike

 

[bwerb]

MikeS once bubbled...



First off if the heart has stopped, any breathing assistance is a waste of time and delays the start of full CPR.

Yes, true but...there is NO way of effectively determining if the heart has stopped in the water. Where I dive, we all wear drysuits and there is no way you are ever going to be able to tell until you are out of the water.

Secondly, I think that effective rescue breathing is difficult if not impossible, just maintaining an open airway is going to be extremely difficult, remember that any water is going to make the airway slam shut!. I’ve not seen any statistics on the effectiveness of rescue breathing but I suspect it’s very low, not that I wouldn’t try like hell if that was the only option. If you can get to shore in a couple of minutes, you’re better off getting to shore, or the boat, where you can start effective CPR, plus you can take advantage of other resources like oxygen that are not available in the water. You have to make a judgment call based on how far you are from shore.

Mike

I'll give you that getting to shore/boat etc. is of primary importance but and it is very difficult to maintain an open airway but, there is nothing at all wrong with putting in a few breaths and swimming as fast as humanly possible to the exit. I totally agree that it is all about judgement calls concerning how far you are from stable ground in terms of how much time and effort you spend on in-water care , I just think that it is wrong to write-off in-water breathing as an "optional extra." Just out of curiosity, have you ever "played the victim" during rescue drills? I was surprised at how effectively they kept my head out of the water (don't ask my about the "snorkel breathing" however as I found out that a snorkel full of water and my nose being held shut was definitely effective at bringing me closer to being a real victim than any other drill )

 

[Lawman]

This is an excellent thread. Divers are like pilots in that we constantly train for emergencies that might never arise. This thread brings back Rescue Diver lectures and is a chance to listen to some real pros who have delt with the real thing. I hope we keep this going forever.