Advice for traveling without dive buddy

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Do not push the GF into it.

I got a 19 cf pony, reg, and sling. It's a lot of work & money, and not the same as a good buddy, but still a good idea.


Could not agree more. Someone who is taking up diving to please someone else is actually somewhat of a disqualifier with PADI for good reason.

---------- Post Merged on September 2nd, 2012 at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous Post was on September 1st, 2012 at 09:01 PM ----------

@sixt3denied

"So i guess the next time you get buddied up with an incompetent diver, make sure you blame yourself for their incompetence- not them. It is obviously your fault. You are obviously a poor buddy. That's the summary of your ridiculous response to my post. I'll keep that in mind the next time i have a buddy that cant maintain buoyancy and tags along 25 feet above me on my next dive. Maybe i should tie a string to him like he is a kite? This way i can reel him in when he begins drifting to the surface. Maybe i should discuss proper weighting in detail before we descend? Then hold on to his power inflator and deflate/inflate his BCD for him? Blow air into his mask to equalize it? Signal him as to when he should equalize his ears? Check his console for him? Tie rope to his fins so i can maneuver him like a puppet - so i can make sure he doesn't land on the reef or stir up silt?"

You are not a perfect diver, I'm not, no one is always 100% infallible. It sounds like you had a bad experience or two, but I'll bet that some of your buddies have also thought you may have been a bit of a hold back or burden in the past. Unless I know my buddy well, I don't love the idea of diving with one, I have had the good fortune of diving with a 'elite clique' of very experienced divers most of the time. But, when you are paired, either by someone else's choosing or your own, you have an obligation to that buddy(you may not like it, but you should remember it from your OW certification). It sucks to play 'baby-sitter', but you should either accept that as a possible responsibility and all that comes with it, or hire your own DM. Your being cocky and obnoxious to dive pros on this thread, I'm sure leaves most people scratching their heads.
To help you understand that perhaps you are being arrogant I would point out something to you from your post.
"I'll keep that in mind the next time i have a buddy that cant maintain buoyancy and tags along 25 feet above me on my next dive."
If your buddy is maintaining a distance of 25 feet above you the reason is probably that they are being courteous. On my earlier dives, if my air became an issue I would go shallower then the group so they would be able to enjoy their time and not surface earlier then expected due to my running low on air. If someone is tagging along 25 feet above you it may be because they do not feel comfortable going deeper at the moment. But, that does not mean they are not maintaining their buoyancy, they are, only at a more shallow depth.
I have nearly 200 dives, but I am sure that I will still try to pluck whatever knowledge I can from the dive pros whose opinions you dismiss after asking for their opinion even up until my 1000th dive.
A dive buddy who takes off and leaves you to search and surface is not worth the air in their tank. But, a buddy who requires your assistance, while it may take away from your dive, should be looked upon by novice divers such as us as an opportunity to improve our underwater skills. I don't think even you will proclaim yourself to be perfect.
If you are paired with a buddy, you have an obligation. Be prepared to oblige or hire your own DM. Just my opinion, no dis-respect intended.
 
My opinion is, there is no 'unsolvable' issue with regards to insta-buddies. It's a common scape-goat for personal failure.

I'm sorry, but I have to take issue with this. Yes, a good dive professional can manage almost any kind of buddy. Even a good, experienced non-professional diver can do this; I have done it myself, as I like to take new divers out, and try to offer to buddy up with people who are visiting Seattle and looking for someone with whom to dive. BUT those dives are not dives for fun, for the professional or the experienced buddy. They are "working" dives, where the pro or guide's focus is the safety and enjoyment of the buddy.

Personally, when I spend the money for a charter boat trip, that's not what I want to do in the water. In my bad experience, I had two buddies who, despite my increasingly urgent signals to both of them, casually separated from one another and were completely unconcerned about it. At the point where I could no longer keep both of them in sight, I realized that neither of them cared a whit about whether they could see ME, either; the rest of my dive was spent watching the one buddy I could see, and staying close to him, at the cost of giving up on trying to scout critters or enjoy my own dive. (BTW, I would handle that dive differently today, but I've done some "solo diving" as a DM since. I had never done a solo dive on that day, and didn't want to.)

What someone CAN handle, and what they WANT to handle, are two very different things. It's simply unfair to suggest that a casual recreational diver cheerfully accept the obligations of a professional guide.
 
Hey all,

Here's the deal.... I recently got back into diving and have several dive trips coming up. My issue is this:

My girlfriend doesn't dive. I AM working on "gently" persuading her to give it a try - but she is still very undecided about it.

So - in planning my dive trips - I have only used dive operations that include a DM in the water (that i can tag along with) for free. My reason for this is that i have too often been partnered up with complete dummies in the past on dive trips. Although this was not always the case it has happened more often than not. Somehow I always seem to get stuck with the guy that is completely clueless, can't equalize, can't control his buoyancy, is totally over-weighted, is an air hog- etc etc etc. So to avoid dealing with this i now prefer diving without an "official" buddy - and I look to tag along with the DM. If i'm gonna spend my heard earned $$$ on a dive trip, the last thing i want to do is eat up my air supply and bottom time because i have to "hold another diver's hand" (metaphorically speaking).

I live in New York. But i like diving in tropical waters - (usually the Florida Keys, or Boynton Beach/West Palm Beach Florida area) so it is very hard finding a buddy that can travel at the same time that I do.

Am I the only one that has this issue? Any advice?

Thanks!

By the way, I will be diving with Underwater Explorers in Boynton Beach Florida on Saturday September 22nd at 1:00PM and Sunday September 23rd at 1:00PM. There are 5 spots left on the boat for each of those date/time slots. You can sign up here if you'd like to join me. Maybe we can fill the boat! https://securec7.ezhostingserver.com/diveboyntonbeach-com/indexs.cfm

Most times you will not have a problem getting an instabuddy. A few dive ops that I frequent, and often it is because I shop those that will, will allow me to dive solo. However, my last trip, a few weeks ago to SFla and the Keys, I was buddied with several really obnoxious people. I was beginning to wonder if all my good luck had run out. I will not name the operators but they also contributed to the situation. In fact, my favorite cattle boat dive shop in Key Largo that I usually enjoy diving with were complete jackasses, so much so, they are now off my list.

Yes, 90% plus of the time you will be able to buddy up with a good buddy, but I guess that 10% caught up with me this trip. One guy actually shoved my camera onto the deck! I somehow resisted the need to do him damage but it was hard. It is so much better when my wife comes along with me, but yes, most ops will help you buddy up and the vast majority of the time all will go well.

Thing is, bad or good, if he/she is your buddy, you are taking responsibility for them even if they do not reciprocate.

N
 
Just to address a few questions, posed earlier in the thread, from the perspective of diver training/buddy procedures/safe diving practices...

Maybe i should tie a string to him like he is a kite? This way i can reel him in when he begins drifting to the surface.

You can buy 'buddy lines' that aim to help prevent buddy separation. Many divers, including myself, feel that they are an 'equipment solution for a skills problem'. It's better to treat the causes, not the symptoms.

Good communication, appropriate spacing and effective situational awareness is that answer to the problem. If acted upon quickly, a simple 'steadying hand' is enough to prevent the start of a buoyant ascent. Being a good buddy means anticipating and responding to potential issues as a preventative.

As the saying goes; "a stitch in time, saves nine".

You can shape the outcome of a dive, from your input in the pre-dive stages. It's hard to rectify misunderstandings or incompatible approaches once the dive itself has commenced (as TS&M illustrated).

This is something experienced divers/mentors/dive pros manage day-in, day-out. Experience allows them to be pro-active, rather than reactive. It hardly becomes an issue at all...

Article: How to Dive with Insta-Buddies

Maybe i should discuss proper weighting in detail before we descend?

Maybe you should... if that'd help prevent your buddy having weighting issues that, in-turn, effected the quality of your dive.

There's absolutely no reason why the issue of weighting should not be brought up within the general process of dive planning. Ascertain your buddies experience and qualification. If they are inexperienced, confirm their weighting...ask a few questions; how long since they last dived? any changes in equipment/environment since their last effective weight check? etc etc

PADI provide 'quick-fix' guidelines to weighting requirements - that allow a reasonable prediction to be made, before getting in the water. Quickly run through that process... it'll be enough to ensure that over/under-weighting doesn't become a major issue on the dive.

That can be followed up by a 30 second in-water weight check, at the beginning of the dive. That technique is taught on OW courses and repeated on every OW training dive for a reason. The reason being... new divers are expected to take a while to figure out their weighting and get comfortable. It's taught, so that it can..it should... be done as a matter of course.

Neglect these steps, and don't be surprised if the quality of the dive is degraded due to buoyancy problems. If you (the buddy) are impatient, pressure buddies to rush... and/or don't bother to adhere to procedures that you were taught to use... then who is to blame for the result?

Again, experienced divers/mentors/dive pros do this day-in, day-out... to improve the quality and safety of dives (for themselves and customers).

Then hold on to his power inflator and deflate/inflate his BCD for him?

No. But perhaps allowing some more time and consideration for them would help. If they can tell that you are exasperated with them, because of the entirely predictable issues they'll face when gaining initial equipment familiarity, then you only add to their stress and make the situation worse.

Dive pros encounter this day-in, day-out.. and it isn't a big issue. Establish good communication, ensure your own situational awareness and it is possible to anticipate these issues. When necessary, pause the dive, communicate with the buddy... let them take a moment to get their buoyancy stable, signal a reminder if needed... then, once things are sorted out, continue the dive.

Patience and empathy goes a long way... a karma has a nice pay-back, in respect of a better quality dive, having positively supported and assisted your buddy to get stable and settled at depth.

Impatience and frustration also has a karmic pay-back...

Blow air into his mask to equalize it? Signal him as to when he should equalize his ears?

Applying some logical descent procedures would certainly help. Buddy/Situational awareness on descent is the factor that prevents these problems. You cannot equalize for people; but you can monitor them, ensure a controlled descent and make it abundantly clear that "it's perfectly ok" for them to stop, get their equalization sorted before resuming descent.

There are some measures that you can adopt to formalize that descent process. The concept of 'S-Drills' and 'Bubble Checks' goes a long way towards ensuring a well-communicated, situationally aware and team/buddy-focused descent. ANDI include 3 mandatory 'stop checks' in their descent, even for recreational dives - it works very effectively.

Again.. pressuring and rushing your buddy (a symptom of frustration, impatience and weak empathy) only encourages them to descend faster than they are comfortable with. This means more likelihood of equalization issues (missed equalization/blocks) and further avoidable delays in the dive.

When it comes to descent, especially with novice divers,.. slower is faster.

Again... dive pros manage this day-in, day-out... the right approach, with some pro-active thinking.. makes it a minor issue.

Check his console for him?

1) You do pre-dive planning and a pre-dive buddy check... so there's plenty of time to discuss hand signals, gauge checks etc.

2) Mutual checking and assurance of gas state is a fundamental buddy skill. Checking, and reminding to check, each others air should be a routine part of any dive.

Neglecting to 'shape' the proper conduct of the dive during pre-dive stages contributes to an awkward dive. Weak situational awareness adds to that. The Open Water course teaches these procedures and clearly states that mutual checks/communication of air state during a dive is an important component of the buddy system.

It's important to appreciate that newly qualified divers suffer from high task loading, having to devote a high percentage of their 'processing capacity' towards the basic mechanics of scuba equipment operation. The same issues with task loading occur whenever the diver adds more responsibilities to their workload; navigation, laying a guideline in a cave, taking photographs underwater...

A good buddy, with foresight and appreciation, can anticipate that reality and take more of the burden for situational awareness. That's universal, regardless of experience or level of diving conducted.

It's easy to be flippant and condescending about a diver losing situational awareness, until you realize that it's an issue that effects all divers every time they step up a level in diving demand and challenge.

Take a trip to the 'technical' and 'cave' forums for examples...

Tie rope to his fins so i can maneuver him like a puppet - so i can make sure he doesn't land on the reef or stir up silt?

Nope, but you can go slowly. Patience...empathy...understanding...sensitivity. Pause the dive when they get over-whelmed...encourage them to take the time to get relaxed and comfortable. Stay a reasonable depth above the reef/silt... based on their ability, not yours.

No- i'm pretty sure that is HIS job. He is a CERTIFIED diver. He is supposed to he competent on his own. You dive with a buddy for safety purposes. Not to have your hand held.

Let's not over-estimate the Open Water course. It is 4 dives...and a lot to be learned. No experienced diver would agree that any true competence can be ingrained in only 4 dives. The principle is that trainees are taught the skills, but realistically expected to ingrain and refine those techniques after qualification.

They do that quicker, and more effectively, with a empathetic and encouraging buddy...

The same is true every time a new level/challenge of diving is undertaken.

In terms of 'regular buddies'... the person you dismisstoday, could have turned out to be your best diving friend, if treated differently. THAT is why I advised some self-analysis of approach to the issue...and THAT is an answer to the problem of not having access to 'good' dive buddies.

You reap what you sow.

Sadly, the more experience and training you get - the more difficulty you will encounter in finding a 'compatibly-skilled' buddy. If you disregard all those people below your 'standards', then the pool just gets smaller and smaller. The answer is to help people reach your standards - to support, guide and mentor them into becoming the dive buddy you want them to be.

I'll reiterate from my previous post - blaming insta-buddies is just an excuse by bad divers. Those with sufficient skill and knowledge deal with 'lesser skilled' buddies day-in, day-out... and make those dives safe and enjoyable. All it requires is some patience, empathy, sensitivity, to be proactive in approach, adhere to taught procedures and preempt foreseeable problems. Neglect to do that... and you'll have bad dive experiences... no matter who you dive with, or what you experience level is...
 
Seems to me that if you aren't diving with someone less skilled than you...

...your buddy is.

Are you assuming that he is happy being "stuck" with you? Do you think he has the same assessment of your skills that you do?
 
Seems to me that if you aren't diving with someone less skilled than you...

...your buddy is.

Are you assuming that he is happy being "stuck" with you? Do you think he has the same assessment of your skills that you do?

That's funny. :D

flots
 
ROFL

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
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A lot of local dive shops have buddy lists they can add you too, then they send out an email or a text when someone wants a dive buddy. Who knows, maybe there is another diver that goes to your local dive shop who is going to the same destination you are going. Also, some shops have pool sessions that are open to certified divers only, and that is another great way to meet other divers in person.
 
I'm sorry, but I have to take issue with this. Yes, a good dive professional can manage almost any kind of buddy. Even a good, experienced non-professional diver can do this; I have done it myself, as I like to take new divers out, and try to offer to buddy up with people who are visiting Seattle and looking for someone with whom to dive. BUT those dives are not dives for fun, for the professional or the experienced buddy. They are "working" dives, where the pro or guide's focus is the safety and enjoyment of the buddy.

Personally, when I spend the money for a charter boat trip, that's not what I want to do in the water. In my bad experience, I had two buddies who, despite my increasingly urgent signals to both of them, casually separated from one another and were completely unconcerned about it. At the point where I could no longer keep both of them in sight, I realized that neither of them cared a whit about whether they could see ME, either; the rest of my dive was spent watching the one buddy I could see, and staying close to him, at the cost of giving up on trying to scout critters or enjoy my own dive. (BTW, I would handle that dive differently today, but I've done some "solo diving" as a DM since. I had never done a solo dive on that day, and didn't want to.)

What someone CAN handle, and what they WANT to handle, are two very different things. It's simply unfair to suggest that a casual recreational diver cheerfully accept the obligations of a professional guide.

Well said and spot on!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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