AED Use...Question?

[JDKay]

Blue - as someone already pointed out you do not want to shock someone who is in v-tach with a pulse unless you have and are trained in manual defibrillation. Without syncronized cardioversion which is not a component of an AED shocking someone with a pulse (even v-tach) can stop the electrical and mechanical action of the heart entirely for good. This is why the rule is - If unresponsive and pulseless then AED.

Also, those defib pads cost a fortune and once the package is open they can't be reused. Although a coat of aquaseal may work!

Just a thought. I'll bet we all forgot the original post. Perhaps he is a layperson with heartsaver cpr, and we have seriously confused and tormented him.

I just scrolled down. Now I'm sure we have.

Sean putting it on will 99.9% surely not harm anyone. But, no you shouldn't make it normal practice. If you would like some of this turned into English, PM me.
John

 

[Firediver]

I ment to Say unconciouse Choking.. my mistake

 

[bridgediver]

Just a thought. I'll bet we all forgot the original post. Perhaps he is a layperson with heartsaver cpr, and we have seriously confused and tormented him.

I just scrolled down. Now I'm sure we have.

Sean putting it on will 99.9% surely not harm anyone. But, no you shouldn't make it normal practice. If you would like some of this turned into English, PM me.
John

Whats confusing about this? "This is why the rule is - If unresponsive and pulseless then AED."

I think I understand where Goblue was coming from which is why I was throwing the terminology out there but perhaps you're right. The beauty of an AED is that they are simple to use and nobody needs to know all that ACLS crap. It makes no difference to a first responder whether he's in v-tach or v-fib; does he have a pulse or not is the main point.

 

[Firediver]

Yeah Bridge diver. heehee

 

[njrn2]

If you want the protocols on the AED's <procedure> I have all the info here and would be happy to copy it here to the board.

I am a little curious.... what is the recomended level of CPR for the diver, DM, etc.?

I beleive that the AHA Heartsaver CPR and AED class, along with friends and family CPR, recomend that the AED is placed if there are signs of no circulation - unresponsiveness, no movement, and pale, dusky, or blue color. The technique for checking a carotid pulse is not taught at this level. It is only taught at the CPR for the Healthcare provider level. So, someone may not know how to check for a pulse.

The argument still stands. The AED is not to be placed on a person who is concsious.

 

[GoBlue!]

Blue - as someone already pointed out you do not want to shock someone who is in v-tach with a pulse unless you have and are trained in manual defibrillation. Without syncronized cardioversion which is not a component of an AED shocking someone with a pulse (even v-tach) can stop the electrical and mechanical action of the heart entirely for good. This is why the rule is - If unresponsive and pulseless then AED.

OK, I'll submit that I was bringing up a picky point that likely didn't need to be brought up. Heck, if someone's in unstable VT to the point of unconsciousness, even if they have a weak pulse (the scenario I was painting), it won't be weak for long. Soon it'll be gone. Then we can all agree to apply the AED & administer a little "medicine by Edison."

(A side note...is it true that AEDs don't do synch cardioversion if a patient is in VT?? Doesn't seem to make sense to me....)

Oh, and another point of reminder to those reading this thread about AEDs. Please remember to quickly dry the victim's chest & make sure they're not lying in any standing water when shock is applied. We're in a diving forum afterall, so I think it's worth mentioning.

Jim

 

[bridgediver]

"medicine by Edison."

I like that one! lol. I'll agree that someone in sympomatic v-tach won't have it for long. For the regular person trained in CPR and AED use it doesn't really matter - no use complicating things.

"(A side note...is it true that AEDs don't do synch cardioversion if a patient is in VT?? ."

At the risk of using more complicated medical jargon it is my understanding that the technology is unable to perform a sort of "auto sync" in v-fib (this function would have to apply to both v-tach and vfib). It wouldn't be able to flag the appropriate wave to deliver the shock in v-fib and so there would be a "no shock advised" (or at least very delayed). In order to perform a cardioversion it must have a manual sync and to do that there must be adequate training including rhythum recognition. A bit more complicated for the average person.

Perhaps that AED tech can explain better. I don't think I did a very good job...

 

[GoBlue!]

At the risk of using more complicated medical jargon it is my understanding that the technology is unable to perform a sort of "auto sync" in v-fib (this function would have to apply to both v-tach and vfib).

There is nothing to synch in V-Fib, as the QRS complexes are gone. VT, on the other hand, would need synchronized cardioversion. It's not explicitly written in any of the ACLS materials I have immediate access to, but I think the thing MUST synch VT.

Jim

 

[JDKay]

There is nothing to synch in V-Fib, as the QRS complexes are gone. VT, on the other hand, would need synchronized cardioversion. It's not explicitly written in any of the ACLS materials I have immediate access to, but I think the thing MUST synch VT.

Jim

AED's do not synch. Will not synch. Can not synch. To qoute Microsoft "This is by design."

Puleless VT does not get synched. As for ACLS material I don't have it either. Back in the old days (groan) there was a footnote at the bottom that said to defib, not cardiovert, the VT with a pulse if the pt. was unstable. Yeah it really did say that.

 

[GoBlue!]

AED's do not synch. Will not synch. Can not synch. To qoute Microsoft "This is by design."

Interesting. Thanks.

Jim