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Interesting analogy. One cannot predict exactly WHEN the next earthquake will happen, but one can predict with high reliability geographical regions WHERE it will happen. That is like saying that a health-related diving problem is more likely in an unfit person, and in an older person, and especially in an older, unfit person. So if one is trying to stay away from earthquakes, you improve your odds (i.e., lower your risk) by staying away from certain places. And if one is trying to avoid dealing with medical-related diving problems, you improve your odds by staying away from the unfit and the old. That is quite different than talking about the odds of a specific individual having a problem, even if they are unfit and older. Sorry, but that is the way the statistics work. Since I'm older, and only moderately fit, I'm sensitive to this. I view myself as being in a category that needs to make a stronger case than others as to why I am OK to dive. That special need comes with the territory.
The Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA) only forbids age discrimination against people who are age 40 or older. It does not protect workers under the age of 40, although some states do have laws that protect younger workers from age discrimination.
You are right. Everything I find on fed laws on age are related to employment. But just like a bakery may be liable if it refuses to make a wedding cake for two grooms, I suspect it is just a matter of finding some GOD, grumpy old diver, with the money and inclination to take some dive op to court.
You are right. Everything I find on fed laws on age are related to employment. But just like a bakery may be liable if it refuses to make a wedding cake for two grooms, I suspect it is just a matter of finding some GOD, grumpy old diver, with the money and inclination to take some dive op to court.
Since I don't have the financial resources (and at my age probably never will) to even charter dive in my home area, I dive free of these types of concerns. My only concern would be some LDS refusing to fill my tanks because I look too old. Being low-middle income does have an upside after all!
Personally I would not deal with anyone that required I provide medical proof of my fitness to dive. The only possible exception would be if it meant I could dive at Truk, but since that is as likely as my diving under the ice the covers the moon Europa it's a non-issue.
You are right. Everything I find on fed laws on age are related to employment. But just like a bakery may be liable if it refuses to make a wedding cake for two grooms, I suspect it is just a matter of finding some GOD, grumpy old diver, with the money and inclination to take some dive op to court.
I'm 67 and in pretty good shape. Divemasters soon learn to check that I have my air turned on and do not have my mask on backwards. Once underwater I'm a lot younger and no one offers to help me cross the current.
Dive shop operators are not responsible for a diver once he enters the water. Now the equipment and or air must be good or they can be sued. And a charter boat operator is also not responsible for a diver in the water. As long as he or the boat is not responsible for the problem. I am no lawyer but have marine lawyers tell me that releases are not worth the paper they are written on. Nothing can release you from your responsibility. I have seen several cases here in Pensacola where Divers lost there lives due to heart attacks or other decompression matters. Never seen one shop or boat operator get sued. Once you enter the water Your ass is your responsibility. Just like the Dive shops equipment or air and boat operator doing what is correct is there responsibility.
Maybe we need to agree that not all discrimination can, or should be, remedied by legal action. I never mentioned legal action until it was brought up by others. We never intended to initiate any legal action. We do have the right to decide what is, or is not, discrimination against our group members and proceed accordingly. My OP was merely to inform others, that may be in circumstances similar to ours, that there are ops that would add additional, and in my view unnecessary and useless, requirements to being able to dive with them. Sure, it is their op and their rules, but it is our money and our expectations that need to be met in order to secure my groups patronage. I suspect that many people that see no problem with ops doing something like this are nowhere near the age that this requirement would affect them. We'll see how they feel when they get closer to that age.
RichH
I am no lawyer but have marine lawyers tell me that releases are not worth the paper they are written on. Nothing can release you from your responsibility. I have seen several cases here in Pensacola where Divers lost there lives due to heart attacks or other decompression matters. Never seen one shop or boat operator get sued. Once you enter the water Your ass is your responsibility.
I am confused, but it appears to me that you are contradicting yourself here. The first half of the quote above indicates that releases do not protect the dive operator from responsibility for your safety, and the second half seems to indicate that you think the operator has no responsibility whatsoever for your safety. Perhaps I need an explanation to clear up my misunderstanding.
In one of the most famous dive lawsuits, a DM led divers (beyond the maximum depth for OW divers and for a time far too long for that dive and then refused to share air with a diver who went OOA. (The DM was almost OOA himself at the time.) You may argue that the diver made the decision alone to follow the DM and not ascend when low on air, but the jury found against the DM.
In a case in California a couple years ago, a diver was struggling at the surface at the end of the dive, and the DM on the boat jumped in to help. The DM helped him get out of his BCD without first removing the weight belt, and the diver sank like a rock and died. The aftermath did not go well for the operator or the DM (who was not current on his certification and thus uninsured). You may argue that the diver in the water was solely responsible for knowing to take the weight belt off first, but that's not how others saw it.
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