Air 2 Octo/inflators -- why the heated debate?

[jar546]

I like mine, actually love mine. Tucked away neatly in a convenient location, not dragging or bulky. Easy access as since it is an inflator for the BC, it is one less item to have to find. I use the Airsource 3 which is sort of a regulator first and an inflator second unlike the Airsource 2 which is an inflator first and a regulator 2nd. Easy to breath with and I use it during dives just to keep it in use and to get use to accessing it.

The main complaint that I have seen from others is for air sharing since it is just long enough to reach your own mouth. I think that is perfect because someone OOA will probably want to grab the regulator out of your mouth rather than look for the octo. I don't see this as an issue and all of the instructors and dive-cons in my shop use the airsource.

Convenience, ease of use.

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

If you are using your air ii to breathe and you are on your way up and you have to vent gas from your bc to keep yourself from going up to fast, using the same device that is in your mouth can complicate things. You can do it, but it is not as easy a being able to put the hose straight up in the air with it in your mouth.

Also, when you use your air ii and your buddy is on your primary, you will be very close. I had a buddy for a while that had one and we were much closer than I wanted to be---for a number of reason LOL I wanted to dive and not get personal. I like a little space between me and my buddy. 2-3 feet seems nice for my comfort level.

I am not sure how well the air ii breathes, but in an emergency, I want both me and my buddy to have nifty easy breathing regs which is why both of my second stages are the same.

The things above may not be important to others, but they are important to me. So with that in mind I picked gear that met my comfort level.

 

[Jorgy]

So my first rig was a TUSA DUO AIR on a TUSA BC......

Went BP/W and then did long hose, bungeed regs...even on my warm water travel rig......

Airlines started charging for luggage, bought an UW camera rig, I got a lot better with my buoyancy (the main reason I got rid of the TUSA)....plus I liked fewer hoses and less general "clutter"......a camera with WA lens and dual strobes is enough....

So I now dive a Sherwood Gemini with Miflex hoses for my travel rig.......

I put a long corrugated hose on the wing, with the Miflex I could easily breath off the reg for the entire dive......it look like half of a old school dual hose reg.....

I do have my primary on a 5 foot Milfex so it easy easy to hand off to a buddy if needed.......

So this rig works for me......hence why I dive it...and like it.....

Dive and let dive.......M

My cold water rig is still uses two identical second stages, as I was in 32 degree water on Saturday doing my ice dives, not aware of a cold water octo/inflator.....

 

[cocoajoe]

I have a Atomic SS1. Not in the way and you're (supposed to be) taught to hand off your primary in case of your buddy being OOA. But you have to look at the type of diving you're doing. Cave is way diff from run of the mill shallow reef diving.

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

I have a Atomic SS1. Not in the way and you're (supposed to be) taught to hand off your primary in case of your buddy being OOA. But you have to look at the type of diving you're doing. Cave is way diff from run of the mill shallow reef diving.

I probably will never dive a cave--unless my budget improves--and I dive a bp/w long hose with two identical 2nd stages. The rig is perfectly suited for the warm water shallow dives I do. Most of my dives these days are in 15-20 feet of water. It is where the fish are--and sometimes the snakes that swim down to eat them.

My buddy and I did a dive where we air shared almost the whole dive and it was nice to have that space between us with the long hose as we swam. It made for a comfortable experience. I felt pretty claustrophobic when I did the air share with the air ii. I did not like that experience at all. It is a personal preference on my part, but that is the reason for my preference.

I also like the way a bp/w feels, the stability and the ease of stowing my stuff. I feel much freer in the water. Others like jackets and I have dove them with success as thousands of people have and will continue to do. I just like the performance and comfort better. Those things have nothing to do with caves.

 

[Peter_C]

What do you like or dislike about your Air 2?

Regards,
Steven

Now that we have a proper question

I sold the piece of crap AIR II, along with the jacket BC attached to it, after 20 dives.

The idea behind donating the air source in your mouth is great and one I stick with. A panicked out of air diver may well grab the reg from your mouth so you might as well be prepared and practice donating that one every time. This means you will need a longer hose on your primary second stage. Since it should be at least 40" going bigger to 60" or 84" works even better since you can wrap it around your body and behind your neck, then into your mouth, keeping it streamlined and out of any flailing arms way of ripping it out of your mouth on accident. The longer hose length also make air shares very easy. You can separate distance between each other, or grab on tight and look them in the eye. The best of both worlds is available.

Having an inflator mounted on the left side of the wing is also a good one. I use it for filling and venting my BC. I see no need at this point to change that part of the system or add anything more to it. Keep it simple!

Now having a crappy octo hooked to my BC inflator may sound good in theory but sucks in reality. They breathe like crap at depth. Mine took a lot of inhalation effort. (Something I can easily change with my current bungee backup by twisting the knob a couple times and be breathing easily.) In order to have an octo that won't free flow easily in all directions it has to be detuned like they are. Unfortunately at 90' I would not want to breathe off of an octo inflator, which I have done to test it.

Seeing an inflator fail at the pull dump point showed me that the design is not a good one. There is no need for pull dumps as you can simply raise the inflator up, hit the button, and vent it...except if it is stuck in your mouth.

Less hoses are not a good reason to get rid of a vital piece of gear, the back up 2nd stage. I have seen inflators fail where they continually filled the BC with air. Unfortunately for them they couldn't just unhook the LP hose and continue their dive. With a plain old inflator you can orally inflate your BC and go about diving like normal. (Dive ruined! Seen it a couple of times now) In my save a dive kit I keep the parts needed to repair a standard inflator. I was not able to help either of these folks though. I have had my inflator bleed air in continually and disconnected it and went on the second dive orally inflating as I went. No problem!

Oh that is enough of my opinions for now

 

[lsorensen]

Experienced divers seem to have strong opinions about the Air 2 style of combined octo/inflators. Some love them, others seem to hate them. Nobody seems indifferent, which I find odd.

What's behind these strongly-held opinions?

What do you like or dislike about your Air 2?

I think it really comes down to a few things.

First, how were you taught to share air in an out of air situation? Certainly PADI has been teaching people to share using a spare reg on a longer hose, usually in a bright yellow. The Air 2 is not what you would hand over, but rather you would hand over your primary reg, which comes pretty close to the sharing a reg that used to be done (and apparently caused a few drownings during training). Now of course if you have an Air 2 as a 3rd reg in addition to the two standard ones, well then OK, but what is it really good for then? Of course DIR and some others hand off the primary reg on a loner hose to the buddy and switch to a backup (although not an Air 2 style, but a real proper reg), so the issue of which you actually share is debatable.

Secondly is how to manage buoyancy if you are actually using an Air 2 as a regulator. How well does that work? How used to it are you, especially while having someone else on your main reg close by (really close in fact given that your main reg usually isn't that long (except DIR and such) unlike the normal octo). It seems it would make a lousy inflator at the point you start using it as a reg.

So really it comes down to weather you think having one less hose around is worth making the inflator more complicated and potentially changing how you and/or your buddy would have to deal with an out of air situation (which would usually not be the best time to have to try something new and unusual).

I haven't tried one personally, and I almost certainly never will. It seems like it creates more problems than it solves. I also like having my regs in one bag and my BC in another. Having a reg permanently part of the BC seems rather inflexible.

 

[knowone]

This, using the thingo on the shoulder.

With the reg hose clipped off next to the air machine
=
No dangling or lifting for dumping with hand clasped.



And then you can have this

Depending on your dive, style, or lack of it.

But most of the time it lives stuffed in amongst all the other junk
under the cummerbund, which may be one of the reasons for not
having one.

Cardboard boxes included.

 

[seaducer]

I am fairly indifferent, at least to an extent.

I myself will not purchase one, probably ever. I have a few reasons.

I was trained, have always used and am already comfortable with my alternate coming under my right shoulder. That method is not broken, so I see no need to tinker with it for the sake of buying new gear.

As previously mentioned if I am breathing off the AirII and need to ascend it will be awkward venting any air in my bladder.

I have learned many many many times anything that tries to do more than one thing as a rule does nothing well.

But if you or anyone else wants one, has one, whatever...have at it. It is your gear, your $$, use what makes you happy.

 

[vann evans]

I have a different system than what anybody has mentioned so far. I have a Scuba Pro Classic BC with an Air II . I liked the BC and bought it for reasons that did not include using the Air II system. I tried the Air II-didn't like it and had doubts about its safety and usefulness as noted in several posts above. so, I simply use it as a standard inflator/deflator valve-it works fine. I still use both a standard primary and secondary reg setup. My secondary is yellow, has a longer hose that is routed under my right arm and the reg is attached to the right front of my BC. I guess that the Air II could be considered triple reg/redundacy, but I don't really think of it an an air source.

Vann Evans
Sand Dollar A4