Air integrated or no?

[Belzelbub]

Any failure with my spg has been seen during pre dive check.

The failure I’ve had with an SPG was not detectable during a pre-dive check. On initial pressurization, it read around 3200 psi. I turned off pressure, purged lines and it read 0 psi. Dive was shallow, so I checked after about 15-20 minutes. It now read about 2800 psi. I knew that couldn’t be right, but if it had gotten stuck at a slightly lower psi, I might not have noticed until later.

Ive witnessed batteries crap out on transmitters during a dive.

That’s operator error in most cases, and often quite preventable. I change my transmitter batteries annually, definitely well before needed, but they are cheap and easy to do.

 

[Bigbella]

The WORST thing I have read about is that, On occasion, the transmitter may lose communication with the wrist unit for a couple minutes. If this bothers you, run you AI transmitter along with your SPG, until you build confidence in, and work the bugs out of the AI transmitter. Piece of cake.

That's absolutely fine -- use what you like. I just argued for redundancy in the use of some analogue gauges; and most everyone that I know in the "tech" industry, whose battery count, in terms of gear they regularly carry, looks the battery aisle at Walgreens, also carry SPGs . . .

 

[bradlw]

Now wait just a rock-pickin-minute....
We are STILL having the AI (Air Integration) debate? Seriously....

Okay, let Uncle Old-Skool help y'all out here. Shearwater, and several others (Aqua Lung, Suunto, etc.) have had AI for about 8 years now. The Tech diving community has embraced it. Rebreather divers are using AI. Cave divers, and CCR Cave divers are using AI for their stage and Bail-out bottles now. Does someone have to hit you in the head with a Pony Bottle before you realize that AI has proven itself over and over again. It is time to take off the training wheels and embrace the added benefits that integrating Tank pressure into your dive computer has for safety.

The WORST thing I have read about is that, On occasion, the transmitter may lose communication with the wrist unit for a couple minutes. If this bothers you, run you AI transmitter along with your SPG, until you build confidence in, and work the bugs out of the AI transmitter. Piece of cake.

Embrace your inner Technology Nerd!

Uncle Old Skool, out.

original poster here....
as one old schooler to another....my question was more about are there any advantages with modern computers that this old and rusty diver might not be aware of. Not really meant to be a debate exactly..... just a simple question from an out of touch diver.... Would they worth it to me?
My thinking is what do they bring to the party for the added money and complexity?
and the answer seems to be nothing more than they did twenty years ago.
1) digital instead of analog
2) wrist mount instead of hose
3) real time calculation of RMV/SAC

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

great!
so any other advantages or benefits of AI?
- quick glance awareness on wrist
- RMV data
- eliminated HP hose
- anything else? other interesting data or usefulness from having the digital/electronic pressure data

Notably higher CDI factor.

At least in my head.

OMMOHY

 

[scubadada]

original poster here....
as one old schooler to another....my question was more about are there any advantages with modern computers that this old and rusty diver might not be aware of. Not really meant to be a debate exactly..... just a simple question from an out of touch diver.... Would they worth it to me?
My thinking is what do they bring to the party for the added money and complexity?
and the answer seems to be nothing more than they did twenty years ago.
1) digital instead of analog
2) wrist mount instead of hose
3) real time calculation of RMV/SAC

I disagree. My first computer, 20 years ago, was an Oceanic Pro Plus 2 hosed AI computer.

Today, I still dive and older Oceanic VT3 but also dive a Shearwater Teric. For no stop diving, it has a number of advantages such as Buhlmann deco algorithm with custom GFs and functions like SurfGF. The on-computer log is much more complete. The download log is much better.

For more advanced divers, there are numerous other advantages.

 

[Belzelbub]

My thinking is what do they bring to the party for the added money and complexity?
and the answer seems to be nothing more than they did twenty years ago.
1) digital instead of analog
2) wrist mount instead of hose
3) real time calculation of RMV/SAC

In a way, yes. The AI function itself hasn’t changed much in 20 years. Back then, the idea was to give a pressure readout that would display in the same place as the rest of the dive data.

#3 isn’t exactly right. They can calculate SAC (PSI or BAR per minute). RMV (cu. ft. or liters per minute) is usually done after, as that requires entering the tank parameters which is generally not done in the computer.

They can display real time SAC, but I find the GTR or ATR (gas/air time remaining) to be more useful during the dive than SAC.

Here are two dives from my log. The one logged with the Garmin is non-AI. The Shearwater dive has AI. The sloping line is the pressure.

For the Garmin dive,it’s just a guess as all it really knows is the start and end. Subsurface assumes a consistent RMV throughout the dive and uses the depth to vary the slope.

For the Shearwater dive, it has more data points as the computer logs the pressure every few seconds. The different colors indicate areas where consumption was higher when compared to the rest of the dive. I’ve come to expect red at the start of the dive. This makes sense as the tank is cooling and I add a bit aof gas to my BC to establish neutral buoyancy. Reds in other parts of the dive might indicate higher exertion, or a potential problem.

I find that extra information to be useful. I dove for years without a computer, but once I got one, I went all in. It was AI from the start. The only dives I do now without AI are dives at an aquarium. I need to use the aquarium’s gear, so no AI on those. I definitely see that AI is where things are headed. Shearwater, for instance resisted AI for a while until they introduced the Perdix AI. The current Shearwater lineup only has one DC (Peregrine) that doesn’t have AI capability.

 

[bradlw]

I disagree. My first computer, 20 years ago, was an Oceanic Pro Plus 2 hosed AI computer.

Today, I still dive and older Oceanic VT3 but also dive a Shearwater Teric. For no stop diving, it has a number of advantages such as Buhlmann deco algorithm with custom GFs and functions like SurfGF. The on-computer log is much more complete. The download log is much better.

For more advanced divers, there are numerous other advantages.

but those deco algorithms are not enhanced by the air data are they?

 

[bradlw]

In a way, yes. The AI function itself hasn’t changed much in 20 years. Back then, the idea was to give a pressure readout that would display in the same place as the rest of the dive data.

#3 isn’t exactly right. They can calculate SAC (PSI or BAR per minute). RMV (cu. ft. or liters per minute) is usually done after, as that requires entering the tank parameters which is generally not done in the computer.

They can display real time SAC, but I find the GTR or ATR (gas/air time remaining) to be more useful during the dive than SAC.

Here are two dives from my log. The one logged with the Garmin is non-AI. The Shearwater dive has AI. The sloping line is the pressure.

For the Garmin dive,it’s just a guess as all it really knows is the start and end. Subsurface assumes a consistent RMV throughout the dive and uses the depth to vary the slope.View attachment 765519

For the Shearwater dive, it has more data points as the computer logs the pressure every few seconds. The different colors indicate areas where consumption was higher when compared to the rest of the dive. I’ve come to expect red at the start of the dive. This makes sense as the tank is cooling and I add a bit aof gas to my BC to establish neutral buoyancy. Reds in other parts of the dive might indicate higher exertion, or a potential problem.View attachment 765520

I find that extra information to be useful. I dove for years without a computer, but once I got one, I went all in. It was AI from the start. The only dives I do now without AI are dives at an aquarium. I need to use the aquarium’s gear, so no AI on those. I definitely see that AI is where things are headed. Shearwater, for instance resisted AI for a while until they introduced the Perdix AI. The current Shearwater lineup only has one DC (Peregrine) that doesn’t have AI capability.

those are interesting screen shots. thanks for sharing...fun to see.
I'm an engineer and can easily get caught up with gadgets and in analysis paralysis. I get it.

and yeah, makes sense about RMV and sac.... I guess I was oversimplifying for the sake of abbreviation. I was thinking that it would be looking at the current breathing rate and extrapolating some sort of time remaining. Is that about all that's presenting during the dive?

 

[L13]

SPG fails too but usually you can see that it is not reading accurately. Transmitter fails , you dont see much....

That is exactly one of the advantages of a transmitter. if it fails, it fails. I don't think I have ever heard of one failing by giving an inaccurate reading, either right or none. SPG's, on the other hand occasionally lie.

I do use a button SPG for convenience/backup. People say it's an extra failure point, they may be right.

 

[Belzelbub]

I was thinking that it would be looking at the current breathing rate and extrapolating some sort of time remaining. Is that about all that's presenting during the dive?

What is presented during the dive will vary by computer and diver preferences.

My Shearwater can display both SAC and GTR. I chose to just display GTR on mine. My previous Oceanic could not display SAC, IIRC, only GTR.

Another benefit is that you can configure alarms/warnings based on a pressure that you choose.