Air integration for tech dives

[boulderjohn]

If you read threads from years ago on this topic, I was in the "no AI for tech" crowd. My thinking has shifted.

When I dive doubles backmounted, I still use analog gauges and feel no need to get AI. I know I have oodles of gas to do the planned dive, so I only need to check the gauge at my hip occasionally to be sure something really strange isn't happening. For deco, the analog gauges are easily read.

I learned sidemount with analog gauges as well, but I eventually decided that I would only use sidemount for cave diving. I simply think it's easier in open water to deal with stages, deco, boat entries, etc. in backmount. But I much prefer sidemount in caves. A couple years ago I did a week of cave diving in the Yucatan with some friends, and they used AI. I saw the advantages, decided to focus my diving on caves, and decided my next big purchase would be AI computers. Unfortunately, life threw me some curves, and I have not been in a cave since. If life's curves allow me to return to cave diving, I assume I will resume that plan.

 

[broncobowsher]

if someone does not know how to use a analog gauge even after years of only using transmitters. THEY SHOULD NOT BE DIVING!

I was more referring to things like hose routing. Actually looking at it and not expecting all the information on the screen of the computer.

 

[kensuf]

Yeah, I appreciate that in side mount, you guys have other considerations.

The genesis of this thread had to do with someone asking about a computer for a new diver. Someone said that high end computer with AI is the way to go. I was saying that even if this person ventured into tech diving, AI is superfluous. Even for tech diving.

I'm an ocean diver. I appreciate that people can dive side mount in the ocean, even for tech dives but I have not seen it. Is it a thing? Backmount tech diving, I don't understand the value of AI.

My background is pretty much in the old school "DIR" camp with BM doubles being my preferred default config and CCR's / SM when the dive calls for it. Sadly, yeah ocean SM is a thing.

Even though I still have two functioning Uwatec bottom timers, I find that Shearwaters are really useful tools. I believe the cost between the Perdix and Perdix AI is negligible enough that recommending an AI kind of future proofs someone on a pricey purchase if they decide to go sidemount in a future time.

 

[kensuf]

It is easier/faster/safer to glance at your wrist rather than reach for an SPG, especially in a cave where illuminating the gauge may be problematic. It is also nice to now what is in BOTH tanks, in case of isolator closure or roll-offs.

I gotta call BS on some of this.

If you can't illuminate a pressure gauge and read it, you probably shouldn't be cave diving ("if at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not your sport!")

Left post Roll-off:
1. Clue #1 is that your gauge isn't moving - if you're suddenly having a great day and not using air, you're probably not really having a great day.
2. Where did your buddy go? If you're gas matched properly you should probably be hitting turn pressures at similar times unless there is a HUGE difference in RMV. If your buddy is close to turn pressure and your gauges are reading that you've barely touched your penetration gas, see the above listed item.
3. Prevention - you should make it a habit of checking your left post any time you go through a duck under or restriction to catch a valve that's rolling towards off before it does roll off.

Isolator closed: This should be caught in a pre-dive flow check. I've never heard of a case of an isolator that spontaneously closed by itself on a dive. If you can cite one case, please do so.

 

[rddvet]

I use AI on my oxygen on my rebreather. Everything else is standard gauges. I get annoyed with hp spool failures but not enough to move everything to AI and I can't justify the cost since I cycle from ccr to bm doubles to sm regularly.
I'll be honest I still don't fully trust ai either eventhough we're starting to see it's accurate and reliable. I'm giving it some time before I consider a move.
I don't see it being faster than looking at a gauge. I can see my gauges easier since I have old dude eyes that don't like to read at my wrist distance

 

[tursiops]

I gotta call BS on some of this.

If you can't illuminate a pressure gauge and read it, you probably shouldn't be cave diving ("if at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not your sport!")

Left post Roll-off:
1. Clue #1 is that your gauge isn't moving - if you're suddenly having a great day and not using air, you're probably not really having a great day.
2. Where did your buddy go? If you're gas matched properly you should probably be hitting turn pressures at similar times unless there is a HUGE difference in RMV. If your buddy is close to turn pressure and your gauges are reading that you've barely touched your penetration gas, see the above listed item.
3. Prevention - you should make it a habit of checking your left post any time you go through a duck under or restriction to catch a valve that's rolling towards off before it does roll off.

Isolator closed: This should be caught in a pre-dive flow check. I've never heard of a case of an isolator that spontaneously closed by itself on a dive. If you can cite one case, please do so.

OK, I'll call BS on your reply, just for symmetry.
The problem is not you seeing your own pressure gauge, the problem is your light advertently hitting your buddy behind you when you illuminate your SPG before you read it. Why is illuminating your gauge, unclipping your SPG and looking at it, and reclipping it so much better than glancing at your wrist?

Left-post roll off:
1. requires looking at your gauge. see comment above.
2. higher order cognition required to work out why you are different than your buddy; a glace at your wrist is so much faster and possibly more accurate.
3. Agreed. I actually had a roll-off in open water, single tank, while getting to the ladder in sporty seas. The tag line was rubbing on my valve and shut the damn thing off as I moved forward. Suddenly, while reaching for the ladder, zero air in my regs. Silt happens, even while not in a cave.

Agreed. Yet, you read of this happening....

 

[PfcAJ]

OK, I'll call BS on your reply, just for symmetry.
The problem is not you seeing your own pressure gauge, the problem is your light advertently hitting your buddy behind you when you illuminate your SPG before you read it. Why is illuminating your gauge, unclipping your SPG and looking at it, and reclipping it so much better than glancing at your wrist?

Left-post roll off:
1. requires looking at your gauge. see comment above.
2. higher order cognition required to work out why you are different than your buddy; a glace at your wrist is so much faster and possibly more accurate.
3. Agreed. I actually had a roll-off in open water, single tank, while getting to the ladder in sporty seas. The tag line was rubbing on my valve and shut the damn thing off as I moved forward. Suddenly, while reaching for the ladder, zero air in my regs. Silt happens, even while not in a cave.

Agreed. Yet, you read of this happening....

Dont shine your light backwards to illuminate it.... Unclip then hit it with the light.

 

[tursiops]

Dont shine your light backwards to illuminate it.... Unclip then hit it with the light.

Understood. Tell my buddy that.

I'll guarantee you I can glance at my wrist faster than you can unclip, illuminate, read, reclip. But that is probably irrelevant.

 

[rddvet]

Dont shine your light backwards to illuminate it.... Unclip then hit it with the light.

Screw your buddy he doesn't need to see. He/she should be able to do a lost line drill.

 

[PfcAJ]

Understood. Tell my buddy that.

I'll guarantee you I can glance at my wrist faster than you can unclip, illuminate, read, reclip. But that is probably irrelevant.

Uh, yeah, thats a conversation you really should have with your buddy. If they're blasting you with their light, thats not cool.