tiki_bill
Contributor
How does one know if another diver will panic? Reminds me of a speech Edd gave at this convention: nss cds convention - edd - YouTube.
Air Sharing/ S drills in sidemount
- Thread starter SWAMPY459
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DevonDiver
N/A
In my opinion, for sidemount diving, both the long and short hose need to be breakaway.
This means the long hose bolt-snap on an o-ring/zip-tie and short hose on a 'pull to release' bungee necklace. I think zip-tied necklaces are inappropriate to sidemount.
I also equip with a 36" short hose. It comes from a regulator with swivel/turret (SP Mk25, in my case) and routes under the armpit, back up in front of the shoulder then around the neck - this takes up the slack. Using this longer hose, neatly stowed and routed, provides me with an initial option to donate the short hose instantly - allowing the OOG diver to immediately access gas before swapping over to the long hose for ascent/exit. It's purely for the worst case scenario, but I find the routing very comfortable and streamlined.
This means the long hose bolt-snap on an o-ring/zip-tie and short hose on a 'pull to release' bungee necklace. I think zip-tied necklaces are inappropriate to sidemount.
I also equip with a 36" short hose. It comes from a regulator with swivel/turret (SP Mk25, in my case) and routes under the armpit, back up in front of the shoulder then around the neck - this takes up the slack. Using this longer hose, neatly stowed and routed, provides me with an initial option to donate the short hose instantly - allowing the OOG diver to immediately access gas before swapping over to the long hose for ascent/exit. It's purely for the worst case scenario, but I find the routing very comfortable and streamlined.
Good point. If you use bungee cord for the necklace, instead of one of the POS rubber necklaces (e.g. Manta Regulator Necklace discounts on sale Manta) - that require a zip tie to actually keep the mouthpiece from repeatedly coming out - it really isn't an issue. The tension from the bungee is more than sufficient to keep the mouthpiece in the bungee, but you can still pull it out when needed.
DevonDiver
N/A
Actually, I use a manta-style rubber necklace for sidemount. I hated them for backmount, but like them for sidemount... go figure. Different brands do have different sizes/tensions etc... so you do need to get the right one...
The problem with the mouthpiece coming out is solved by using one of these quick release clamp thingys...
It provides enough of a 'hump' to stop the mouthpiece sliding out of the bungee, but the regulator can be easily pulled out with no effort, when needed
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markmantei
Contributor
Couldn't agree more regarding breakaways for both regulators in sidemount, it is absolutely necessary.
I tied my necklace using the same as the method posted here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/277485-tying-regulator-necklace.html It may take a couple of attempts for you to get the sizing exactly where you want it before cutting and melting the ends of the bungee.
Using this method, you can easily tighten the bungee enough that it will never come out unless you intentionally pull it out, yet it will still easily come out with a quick jerk on the reg. Placing the reg back in the necklace is easy in warm water without gloves, but can be a bit of a pain in drygloves. Non issue in a real emergency as you will be thumbing the dive anyway, but can be a PITA following an s-drill.
Also not really a fan of the manta style necklaces, just not enough adjustability to get sizing right. I suppose that they might work well for some, but the bungee method is cheaper and I have not found any downside. Not that I think that Andy's clamp will kill you, but a properly tied bungee necklace does not need anything more than the standard zip ties used to attach 99.9% of mouthpieces.
I tied my necklace using the same as the method posted here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/277485-tying-regulator-necklace.html It may take a couple of attempts for you to get the sizing exactly where you want it before cutting and melting the ends of the bungee.
Using this method, you can easily tighten the bungee enough that it will never come out unless you intentionally pull it out, yet it will still easily come out with a quick jerk on the reg. Placing the reg back in the necklace is easy in warm water without gloves, but can be a bit of a pain in drygloves. Non issue in a real emergency as you will be thumbing the dive anyway, but can be a PITA following an s-drill.
Also not really a fan of the manta style necklaces, just not enough adjustability to get sizing right. I suppose that they might work well for some, but the bungee method is cheaper and I have not found any downside. Not that I think that Andy's clamp will kill you, but a properly tied bungee necklace does not need anything more than the standard zip ties used to attach 99.9% of mouthpieces.
SanDiegoSidemount
Contributor
Not a bad idea for backmount either.
I use the same bungee config you describe for all my necklaces, back and sidemount.
Completely agree with the breakaway clips or necklaces. Isn't that one of the first things taught in equipment config?
Getting back to the op's original question, you could have a differently coloured hose, e.g. yellow, on your right post. This would clearly mark the correct 2nd stage to be hand-picked by the OOA diver. This would obviously not be a solution to 0 viz OOA though...
On the whole, I am not sure where the op's problem lays. As per most training agencies' descriptions of OOA situations, there is a "donor", who donates, the 2nd stage to a "receiver", who receives it. I guess the "receiver" would only be in a situation where he would need to grab the reg for himself, if the "donor" is too slow to donate. If that is the case, that is just one more of the many reasons why those two should not dive together, and probably not dive at all!
Getting back to the op's original question, you could have a differently coloured hose, e.g. yellow, on your right post. This would clearly mark the correct 2nd stage to be hand-picked by the OOA diver. This would obviously not be a solution to 0 viz OOA though...
On the whole, I am not sure where the op's problem lays. As per most training agencies' descriptions of OOA situations, there is a "donor", who donates, the 2nd stage to a "receiver", who receives it. I guess the "receiver" would only be in a situation where he would need to grab the reg for himself, if the "donor" is too slow to donate. If that is the case, that is just one more of the many reasons why those two should not dive together, and probably not dive at all!
forgive me for chiming in here as i have only tried side mount once and have no real experience to draw from. but i will say that when i first saw the set up with a short and long hose, i immediately wondered "why". why don't you simply use the same hose lengths on both tanks (5, 6, or 7 foot). that eliminates any issue with trying to decide in a sharing gas situation which reg do i give up. the one in my mouth or the one not being used. who cares. they both will work just fine. or am i missing something ?? the hose routing can still be exactly the same. left hose run down the tank, back up the tank, under left shoulder, and around the neck hanging on a bungee (with 90 degree elbow if you want). right hose runs down tank, back up tank, under right shoulder, across chest to left side, and around the neck clipped off to right D ring (when not in use).
i am going to assume i am missing a key reason why this cannot be done. i cannot think of one. at least this way, no matter which tank is needed, whether it has to be passed off, shared, passed through a restriction ect, it just won't matter.
i too also wondered as the op does, about how quickly i would be able to donate my long hose if it was clipped off and i was breathing the short hose. and it is obvious by all the replies what the solution can be. but i question the use of zip ties to accomplish this. i am not sure what type of zip tie you fellas would use, but i use them almost every day at work, and even the smallest ones i have are not easy to break or to pull apart. i think i would be more inclined to use an oring. i would test different sizes to see which one provides adequate dependability on holding the reg securely, but still allows you (or your buddy) to break it off relatively easily.
---------- Post added February 2nd, 2014 at 09:31 AM ----------
although i absolutely loved my experience trying side mount, this gas issue is what bothered me the most (compared to the idea of back mount doubles at least). i think using the rule of 1/3 in side mount doubles is pushing the limits. if you loose one tank due to a 1st stage failure for example, at/or near the deepest point of penetration, you will be lucky to have enough gas to exit and complete a safety stop. where as with the back mount set up, you can at least shut down the one reg but still have access to gas in both tanks.
sorry, don't mean to derail the topic. just wanted to put that out there. i am sure this has been beaten to death some where on here. lol never mind me.....carry on !!
i am going to assume i am missing a key reason why this cannot be done. i cannot think of one. at least this way, no matter which tank is needed, whether it has to be passed off, shared, passed through a restriction ect, it just won't matter.
i too also wondered as the op does, about how quickly i would be able to donate my long hose if it was clipped off and i was breathing the short hose. and it is obvious by all the replies what the solution can be. but i question the use of zip ties to accomplish this. i am not sure what type of zip tie you fellas would use, but i use them almost every day at work, and even the smallest ones i have are not easy to break or to pull apart. i think i would be more inclined to use an oring. i would test different sizes to see which one provides adequate dependability on holding the reg securely, but still allows you (or your buddy) to break it off relatively easily.
---------- Post added February 2nd, 2014 at 09:31 AM ----------
although i absolutely loved my experience trying side mount, this gas issue is what bothered me the most (compared to the idea of back mount doubles at least). i think using the rule of 1/3 in side mount doubles is pushing the limits. if you loose one tank due to a 1st stage failure for example, at/or near the deepest point of penetration, you will be lucky to have enough gas to exit and complete a safety stop. where as with the back mount set up, you can at least shut down the one reg but still have access to gas in both tanks.
sorry, don't mean to derail the topic. just wanted to put that out there. i am sure this has been beaten to death some where on here. lol never mind me.....carry on !!
If everyone on the team is diving sidemount how can an OOG situation even occur? Why is rapid reg deployment even an issue?
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