Air2 vs Octo

[Hotpuppy]

Hi,
I'm trying to decide if I would rather have a Octo or an Air2. I'm looking for experienced suggestions.

For Air2:
- streamlined
- lower weight
- less likely to snag something
- one less hose to maintain


Against Air2:
- Difficult for a buddy to breath with
- gets handled more than a octo so might get banged.


Items I have excluded:
- Air 2 is essentially a "path to surface" regulator that isn't intended to be used to continue your dive. I feel this is true of any emergency backup equipment and thus not relevant.
- Price. I purchased used gear and my BCD came with an air2 and the reg setup came with an octo. Therefore I will sell one or the other most likely and not worry about price. (I do plan to have my gear checked out by a LDS before I dive it).

 

[TSandM]

It's not clear to me if you realize that the Air2 is what YOU switch to, when you donate your primary regulator to someone who needs gas. You can't donate an Air2; it's too short.

To me, the advantage of the Air2 is streamlining, and the fact that you always know where your backup reg is, and it's where you can see it and be aware if it's freeflowing or otherwise having problems.

The disadvantages are that it's a fairly poor regulator, and not very nice to breathe from. You have to manage your buoyancy while you are breathing off your inflator, which can be a challenge. If you don't put a 36" or longer hose on your primary regulator, you are literally eye to eye with the other diver. And the fittings are proprietary, so if your BC has issues when you are travelling, you can't just rent any old BC to replace it, because the inflator hose on your reg won't fit.

I personally prefer a longer hose on the primary, and a backup regulator bungied under my neck. It does involve one more hose, but allows you the flexibility to change BCs while preserving the ability to monitor the backup reg for leaks or problems, and the ability to know at all times precisely where it is.

 

[Tortuga68]

I agree with Lynne

For Air2:
- streamlined (not if you bungee your secondary)
- lower weight (marginal)
- less likely to snag something (see bungee comment)
- one less hose to maintain


Against Air2:
- Difficult for a buddy to breath with (see TS&M's comment)
- gets handled more than a octo so might get banged.

Happy diving

 

[AquaNSun]

In OOA situation, panic diver will almost always go for your primary regulator and you'll be the one ended up breathing the air 2 and operating inflator at the same time. It's not easy to multi-task but doable. OOA situation is rare as we're trained to monitor air gauges frequently and so that shouldn't happen unless equipment failure. I like my air 2 mainly because I know "it's right there" and I don't have to look for it in situations when time matters. The number of times you would have to use it - probably not many. But the convenience and assurance is enought to get my vote. For recreational diving, the air 2 would be fine. The traditional octo has the advantage of reach so you can pass it to someone who's stuck on the other side (just an example). I actually have both, yes 2 octos, and it depends on how you route your hoses. I still manage to keep my hoses clean and free. The chances of all my 2nd stages to fail at the same time would be unlikely so that is another assurance for myself, it's just me in this case.

Edit: OOA = Out of air

 

[Zung]

Quote:
... a fairly poor regulator, and not very nice to breathe from...

Yes and no: my G250 breathes better than my AIR2, and my AIR2 breathes better than my kids' octo (AL). And buoancy management is not a big deal, just use your shoulder dump (if you have one).

I'd say an AIR2 gets less banged because it doesn't hang loose; and it requires very little attention: I think mines got serviced twice out of 20 years, so it's a decennal affair

 

[Tortuga68]

In OOA situation, panic diver will almost always go for your primary regulator and you'll be the one ended up breathing the air 2 and operating inflator at the same time

As Lynne mentioned already, you're supposed to switch to the Air2 yourself, not donate it

my G250 breathes better than my AIR2, and my AIR2 breathes better than my kids' octo (AL)

Maybe you should buy your kid a better octo

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Please do a search as over the last few years I and several others who have actually used both have made several posts on the pros and cons. These threads always devolve into a dog fight between the believers and non believers with most of the critics having never used one.

In truth, how well it "works" really depends on what you are trying to achieve in your entire conguration.

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I use an Air 2 on a lightweight travel rig as it allows me to use only 2 LP hoses with the reg (a Scubaopro Mk 17) placed on its side with all three hoses (2LP, 1HP) pointing straight down. This results in super clean hose routing. On this setup (and on all my others) I also use a 7' long hose which aides hose routing and makes air share a breeze.

The reality is that quite often in an actual OOA situaion involving recreational divers, the OOA diver will mug you for your primary. There is a really stupid thread on "primary take" that can safely be ignored as it bogs down in the semantics of training students to dontate the primary versus training them to have it taken, but in the end it makes sense to train students to dontate the primary reg so that when it is taken, they are not surprised and can adapt.

In that regard the Air 2 works well as divers HAVE to donate the primary and the Air is always easy to find as your hand goes to it numerous times on every dive. No one shoudl ever even vaugly consider trying to get a buddy to breathe off it - it was never intended to be used that way.

Originally, Scubapro used a separate pull dump on the right shoulder on their BC's so you coudl use the Air 2 separate from any dunmping function. However it is not hard to dumnp air through an Air 2 while breathing off it in either of two ways. First, if you have a pull dump on the corrogated hose, you just put the Air 2 in your mouth and then press out on the corrogated hose anywhere along its lenght. This lenghtens the hose and activates the pull dump via the cable in the hose. Very simple, and it does no restrict your head movements. You can also dump gas through the Air two just by pressing the large square deflate button. Since you use the buttons on every dive you learn which is which very quickly and pressing the wron one is a non issue.

There is a learning curve, but it is extremely short. Thse who say ascending while breathing off an Air 2 have most likely never done it, never practised it, and/or are essentitally ignoring 30 years of successful Air 2 use.

Since the Air 2 is used several times on every dive, it stays clean and I have neer encountered one as a tech that was full of silt, sand, etc, with a stuck exhaust valve or other issues that occur with a normal octo. The one thing I do see on them is a tendendcy for them to be poorly rinsed - some divers rinse the reg but ignore the Air 2. The good news is that the Air 2 tolerates this very well and with annual service this abuse poses no issues.



The Air 2 as it is often adjusted at the factory and by many techs breathes badly. But it uses the same basic internal design as the R390/R295 with only a slightly smaller lever and diaphragm, and when tuned for peak performance breaths quite well.

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On the other hand, a bungeed octo offers many of the same benefits. It is easy to find as it hangs blow your chin and that location keeps it out of the much. When combined with a 5' to 7' long hose, gas share is very easy. That approach also REQUIRES primary donation, and the long hose primary configuration is ideal for both the AIr 2 and bungeed octo.

In that regard, many of the opponents of the Air 2 oppose it in large part due to the "donate the primary" requirment and those same people will oppose the bungeed octo on the same grounds Just be clear that they are separate arguments.

------

My advice is to consider where you are going with your diving. A long hose primary and bungeed octo is the norm for any techncal diving. If you will be strictly recreational and are going to take the time to configure a very lightweight rig with celan hose routing, then the Air 2 makes sense. If that is not a priority, then stay with a regular octo.

In either case, I recommend you consider a long hose and seriously consider adopting primary dontaion as your default air share method as those approaches work SOOOO much better.

 

[Adi]

I too agree with everything that Lynn stated.

Personally I like to stick with stuff that is flexible, adaptable and what we know. Basic scuba training is based on drills, much like you would learn in a military type environment. That way when you are in any given situation, you know exactly how to react. Its instinctive and your body and mind is conditioned to that given situation. Anything from "lost buddy" to "out of air" to "possible DCI" etc, all have given procedures which we are taught at our most basic training levels.

Im not sure what the level of popularity is in your part of the world, but it certainly is the exception where I come from. Dealing with students and recreational divers on a weekly basis you realise the value in standardisation in training. Everyone knows what to do, what to check, the equipment and procedures are familiar. Introducing a concept such as Air2 is placing something new and unfamiliar into the equation. Even if you show your buddy the use thereof before you descend, in the split second that something might go wrong, the human mind would revert back to what its instinctively (through drill training) been trained. In other words do expect your buddy to be looking and grabbing for a yellow second stage on your BCD (most possibly on the right side of your BCD).

Personally an octo also gives you the ability to change your 2nd stage if needed. You can send it in for service and still use your BCD seperately. As to the advantage of being streamline... I really dont think that one pipe (which could be a lifeline) justifies the requirement for additional streamlining. Surely this can (and should) be done in a way that is streamlined in your profile in any case.

whatever your decision, you need to be comfortable with it. So maybe try both of them a few times before you decide.

happy bubbles!

 

[rab1412000]

i was thinking of switching to an air2 for 'streamlining' and the coolness factor. and i thought it would make a good travel rig. however i have decided not to get one because it would be exremely hard if not impossible to use the air 2 as a reg while inflating your bc with it.
i have been in a downcurrent wherein a had to inflate aside from finning hard and i dont think i could ever do that with an air2. and in the place where i dive downcurrents like that are not uncommon. of course, we try to avoid them as much as possible, but imagine being caught in something like that and having to breath thru ur air2.
also i like using my redundant air source (octo) during some dives, just to make sure everything is working fine. i dont think id be comfy breathing thru an air2 for a whole dive from some of the things ive heard about it. da aqua says otherwise though...

 

[bowlofpetunias]

I bought an AirII when my original occy had to be replaced about 150 or so dives ago.

I had to have a longer hose attached to my AIRII.

I had a bit of problems getting the AIRII set up and adjusted so that I could operate the buttons easily because I have a fused left wrist and that hand is also weaker.

I find it takes more air to "clear" the AIR II to manually inflate my BCD. This is not a significant problem because I can just breathe off the AIR II as long as I want to adjust bouyancy.

I have had problems with free flows and slow leaks from the AIR II. This got annoying enough that I wound up doing one dive on the AIRII so I was not "wasting" the air or having to listen to it bubbling. By the end of the dive (90 minutes) my jaw was awful sore because of the bulk of the AIRII and the cumbersome nature of it being attached to the inflator hose. My neck was sore from having to cant my head to the side to breath off the AIR II.

(Yes I understand the purpose of the OCCY is to finish the dive by allowing an immediate, safe and controlled ascent. I was diving a familiar site with a totally operational Reg as "backup" and saw no need to abort the dive.)

The awkwardness of that dive convinced me to buy another occy. I had been thinking of doing that for some time anyway.

I now have a bungied Occy and long hose and have left the AIR II in place so I have a redundant OCCY.

My OCCY is the same as my primary reg.. both can be adjusted easily.

If I had to chose only one... I would definitely chose the bungied Occy

The bungied Occy is easy to locate allows, is easy to breathe off of or donate and allows a comfortable distance between divers if needed.

I dive with a group of experienced divers who would likely go for my Occy and not my primary in an emergency BUT not one of us has had an OOA experience. Barring gear failure it is highly unlikely any of us are likely to go OOA as everyone is careful about gas managment.

We dive in sites where a lot of dive courses are conducted so an OOA is more likely to be one of those students and most likely they will be in a total panic.

I would prefer not to have my head twisted to the side to breathe off the AIR II (as it was when I dived using it as my primary)while dealing with a panicked diver.

I would prefer not to have my inflator attached to someone who is panicked either so the AIR II would not be "donated"

I think there is an increased risk that the panicked diver would make it hard to keep the bulk of the AIR II in my mouth and not lose it.

I found on the dive I did with the AIR II that I wound up holding it in my mouth with one hand to reduce the pressure on my mouth/jaw and not lose it. This would be hard to do while dealing with an OOA diver.

These are just my opinions based on my experiences with both systems :blinking: