Allow Speculation?-Split from Catalina Diver died today

[Leejnd]

Yet another thread hijacked and destroyed by a few local divers who insist on Monday morning quarterbacking the dive and seem to know or assume they know exactly what happened.

Speculation is incredibly useless and a complete waste of time. Please sit back and let the investigation run its course.

Thank you for making my point for me. Speculation in these threads is inevitable. It's not just this one. It's ALL of them.

And I disagree that it's useless and a complete waste of time. Even the mods have jumped in and agreed that speculation has a place in these threads.

I'd sure like to see the discussion get off "speculation is bad" and get back to the actual incident, what can be learned from it, and what more information might have come out. Anyone else want to see that?

 

[Codyjp]

Thank you for making my point for me. Speculation in these threads is inevitable. It's not just this one. It's ALL of them.

And I disagree that it's useless and a complete waste of time. Even the mods have jumped in and agreed that speculation has a place in these threads.

I'd sure like to see the discussion get off "speculation is bad" and get back to the actual incident, what can be learned from it, and what more information might have come out. Anyone else want to see that?

But there isn't any firm details out. Nothing specific. IT IS ALL SPECULATION AT THIS POINT. You just don't get it do you?

 

[Leejnd]

But there isn't any firm details out. Nothing specific. IT IS ALL SPECULATION AT THIS POINT. You just don't get it do you?

I get that you think speculation is bad. Thanks for sharing that. Not everyone agrees with you that all speculation is bad. If we could ONLY discuss verified facts, then we really couldn't talk about it at all...and then why have this forum to begin with? In many cases the real story NEVER comes out...and all we have are rumors, bits of unconfirmed info, and speculation. So we shouldn't discuss it at ALL?

But you seem angry, and I'm sorry you are so angry. Maybe we'll run into each other diving sometime, and we can be nice to each other.

I do think people can disagree with each other without being hostile.

 

[diverrex]

I think some speculation can be useful when it provide an opportunity for a learning experience. In this thread I see at least three examples of that:

1. Discussion of safe ascent rates
2. The immediate actions to take when a buddy signals OOA
3. Possible reasons why someone can feel like they are not getting any air even though the tank and reg are delivering it.

But the problem with these threads is they get so cluttered up with silly speculations, the same speculations repeated over and over again ad nauseum and my least favorite, pairs of divers debating about who knows the most about diving or what protocols are best where neither is willing to give up the last word so those arguments drag on and on. So we end up with 500+ posts in the thread and maybe only 30 or so have any actual facts or useful speculation to learn from. An many of us just don't have the time resources to read through 470 useless posts to get to the 30 good ones, so we end up missing out on those.

I don't have an answer for this, way too many people feel they have something useful to say when they don't. Who knows maybe many of you feel my post is useless. I just wish there was a way for at least this important section of the board to be limited to useful info only. My rant excluded of course .

 

[Codyjp]

Your right Diverrex. If people DID use this forum for the posting and discussion of facts it wouldn't be filled with pages of useless banter. Speculation dilutes the facts until they get to the point where people don't bother to read it all. Any time I try to follow up on a local accident I find myself sifting through pages of wasteful, worthless posts.

A few select members insist on filling every thread with speculation which renders this part of the forum nearly useless.

I'm an advocate for a forum where certain members can while away the hours speculating about hypothetical ideas of what could have caused an accident.

We know a couple facts about this accident and that is all. Not enough to reasonably speculate and it isn't fair to do such to the deceased nor their families.

Leejnd, I'm not angry at all. I just don't like to see a useful tool be wasted uselessly. It is certainly unfortunate you don't seem to understand this concept, however I doubt we will ever come to an agreement on this.

 

[Codyjp]

This thread is a wonderful example of how far off base speculation can take people. Read the first few pages then on the 7th page (post 70ish) you will find out what really happened from the diver involved.

The speculators were a long way off on this one.

Speculation is careless, dangerous and disrespectful.

 

[scubafanatic]

Yet another thread hijacked and destroyed by a few local divers who insist on Monday morning quarterbacking the dive and seem to know or assume they know exactly what happened.

Speculation is incredibly useless and a complete waste of time. Please sit back and let the investigation run its course.

...and pray tell, what percentage of such inncidents/accidents viewed/reported/discussed here on SB result in 'us' seeing any sort of 'official' investigation/accident report ???

 

[scubafanatic]

I think some speculation can be useful when it provide an opportunity for a learning experience. In this thread I see at least three examples of that:

1. Discussion of safe ascent rates
2. The immediate actions to take when a buddy signals OOA
3. Possible reasons why someone can feel like they are not getting any air even though the tank and reg are delivering it.

But the problem with these threads is they get so cluttered up with silly speculations, the same speculations repeated over and over again ad nauseum and my least favorite, pairs of divers debating about who knows the most about diving or what protocols are best where neither is willing to give up the last word so those arguments drag on and on. So we end up with 500+ posts in the thread and maybe only 30 or so have any actual facts or useful speculation to learn from. An many of us just don't have the time resources to read through 470 useless posts to get to the 30 good ones, so we end up missing out on those.

I don't have an answer for this, way too many people feel they have something useful to say when they don't. Who knows maybe many of you feel my post is useless. I just wish there was a way for at least this important section of the board to be limited to useful info only. My rant excluded of course .

...just as soon as you figure out exactly how to avoid 'throwing out the baby with the bathwater" you need to hurry up and patent it!

 

[scubafanatic]

This thread is a wonderful example of how far off base speculation can take people. Read the first few pages then on the 7th page (post 70ish) you will find out what really happened from the diver involved.

The speculators were a long way off on this one.

Speculation is careless, dangerous and disrespectful.

...speculation is 'dangerous' ??? Speculation is how humans make sense of the world in the absence of information or with incomplete information..... just the other day I caught myself 'speculating' about the reason for a traffic bottleneck on the way to work.....was it someone's stupid flat tire on the side of the road that everyone wanted to rubberneck to see...or was it an accident ? ....wonder how bad an accident it might be ? ...etc..... humans speculate constantly, it's part of our very nature, good luck with diving into our very own DNA and prying out the 'speculation gene' with a crowbar or something !

 

[drbill]

While speculation can, on occasion, provide useful information or suggestions, much of what was in that thread was just downright stupid and careless... hopefully a result of not reading what was stated by people who actually knew something about the incident.

Let me suggest something that may not have been considered. If YOU were the instructor involved in an incident, would YOU want to read groundless speculation about the incident... especially when it seems to criticize the instructor without basis? I know I would take such posts in a hurtful manner if I were an instructor who had just lost a student.

Of course this is one reason I never plan to become a dive professional. I would never want to find myself in a situation of this nature.