Am I too cautious?

[bowlofpetunias]

I've done the dive with a different operator. I carefully considered the situation and spoke to people I trusted who had been through the cave before going through it myself. By the way... silting is impossible and there are two "bubble pockets that are breathable". The bottom is all shell grit and impossible to silt it up. Word is that the first through the cave were freedivers

IMHO the best dives there don't involve transiting the cave but staying in the light zone. Most of the last trips we have made there we didn't bother going through the cave.

I do think it is important that you make your decision before you splash so you, your buddy and the dive operator (I know both Operators have DM's in water) know if you will or will not enter the cave.

No I do not think you are too cautious. You have the right and responsibility to make decisions about your safety based on your personal risk tolerance and skill set.

As to commenting to someone regarding their dive behavior. IMHO a careful approach and well worded question to get someone thinking is fair and reasonable. A lecture or preaching at an adult about their choices is not unless they are your buddy or a danger to you. If I have made the attempt in a respectful way and they have a problem later I will be able to live with myself later.

---------- Post added March 28th, 2015 at 07:08 PM ----------

If you watch the Sydney Weekender clip you can see the reaction of the sharks when the bubble spook them and they twist and swim quickly away.

 

[Iralub]

Hey guys,

I've recently had a few arguments with a bunch of people because of diving in conditions that I consider unsafe, while everybody goes with the "meh, everybody does it"-thing.
A few examples of the situations:

1) South West Rocks in Oz is pretty notorious for diving with grey nurse sharks, and it has a nice "cave". There's no branching there, but turn your torch off and it's suddenly pretty dark. It's also pretty narrow at some points, on 2 tanks sidemount you have to be on your side in some places or you're not getting through. See here for the "map" (sorry, it's the site of a dive center). You have to show you have enough air to make it through the cave before the guide lets you go in, and everybody is required to have one torch, and turn it on before going in (checked by the guide as well). Does it seem crazy to not go in there with a single tank and single torch? Seeing those are group dives with insta-buddies (in fact, my buddy didn't even notice me), I was mainly by myself in there, and so were the others.
2) Group diving with more or less insta-buddies, I see a girl by herself, her buddy was 30m away at least, so I decide to stay "not too far" until her buddy comes back. When explaining to them that a buddy is supposed to be nearby, they simply didn't care. "I could see her, that's enough". Those weren't strangers, although I had never dived with them, we're members of the same club, before I get all the "mind your own business"-haters.
3) Same group diving, I notice 2 guys going in what seemed to be a ~30m swim-through at 15-20m down with absolutely no access to the surface. The 2nd one got in at the moment the 1st one got out. I was on single tank and told my buddy we weren't going in there and went around.
4) Diving on the Coolidge, people going to the engine room (48m, obviously IN the wreck) on a single tank.

Makes me wonder if I'm too cautious... thoughts? Safety first, but I feel like I'm too worried. And should you tell those people that their practice is considered unsafe to most standards? I had a few people questionning me on "but why do you take twins if we all use a single tank?", and even though they understood the explanation, I don't think it convinced anyone to change their diving (not that it's my goal, but I feel like some more safety wouldn't hurt too much).

Well, if you are too cautious, so am I, but as excess of caution is rarely as fatal as its deficiency, it doesn't really trouble me.

1. Personally, I would not enter a 120+ m long, narrow cave (or any cave really), especially with an instabuddy who was not behaving like a responsible buddy. Diving with grey nurse sharks wouldn't be a problem at all though.

2. Keeping close to someone whose buddy has gone off too far sounds like a good and responsible thing to do. To me "I can see her" is not the same as "I can get to her in time in an emergency". On a recent dive trip I was on, very loose buddy relationships were allowed, to the extent that one buddy pair (who I don't think were ever in proximity to each other for the whole trip) surfaced with different dive groups. Once on the surface (with my very good instabuddy) I asked the diver who surfaced with my group "where is your buddy"? and he didn't know and didn't care. I wouldn't want to be either of those divers if there was an emergency, but the DM didn't seem worried, so guess there are different levels of caution.

3. Personally, I will enter some swim-throughs and not others. I'll enter a swim through that is reasonably wide, well lit and I'm with a good buddy and/or DM (and certainly not if separated by 30m). On the same recent trip, the DM went through what looked like a very narrow, dark swim through. I indicated to my buddy that I would not enter it and we both swam around. However, I entered other more comfortable swim throughs on the same trip. Having an attentive buddy close by was a consideration in deciding to enter.

4. 48m down, inside the wreck? Hell no! No way. I didn't lose anything in that wreck or at that depth.

 

[SteveInMD]

I thought I was a pretty safe diver, but the Padi Rescue Diver course has made me much more away of safety. I think a lot of divers could benefit from it. I don't feel paranoid about diving now, but I do know more about what it takes to stay safe. The OP might want to look into the course. It might help put your concerns in perspective.

 

[Freewillow]

Nothing wrong with your story Patoux. You are very right on about everything. Just one word of caution: agree on everything with your dive buddy but do not try to "police" other divers, even if yu know them. One word maybe after the dive but if they do not get it, pass on it. Takes too much time and effort to convince idiots....

 

[Patoux01]

Thanks for the input. Just one thing: I'm not afraid of sharks, especially not grey nurses , I'll keep my distances (a few feet) however.
I'm currently rescue diver, but I don't feel like that training is helping me with this kind of situations. 1 and 4, I did them before having done the rescue course (with what I consider a correct gear configuration for those dives, ie twins and backup torch, and keeping an eye on exits, those places I went are impossible to silt out).

It's mainly in situations 2 and 3 that I feel bad, because if something happens during a week-end out with uni club, things would most likely get ugly for anyone that was there. And because we have a lot of freshly certified divers coming with us, I feel like the more experienced (which is laughable, considering I'm one of them, with 60 dives) should be setting an example. I've also heard that there's already been a few issues with that club, like people running out of air at 30m, O2 being used more than once last year, ... :confused4:

I find it hard to let the more experienced divers set such a bad example for the newbies. Time to find other divers, or manage to land a big mentality change, I somehow think the 2nd option is a bit unlikely to happen, so off with the 1st one.

 

[krawlings]

Thanks for the input. Just one thing: I'm not afraid of sharks, especially not grey nurses , I'll keep my distances (a few feet) however.
I'm currently rescue diver, but I don't feel like that training is helping me with this kind of situations. 1 and 4, I did them before having done the rescue course (with what I consider a correct gear configuration for those dives, ie twins and backup torch, and keeping an eye on exits, those places I went are impossible to silt out).

It's mainly in situations 2 and 3 that I feel bad, because if something happens during a week-end out with uni club, things would most likely get ugly for anyone that was there. And because we have a lot of freshly certified divers coming with us, I feel like the more experienced (which is laughable, considering I'm one of them, with 60 dives) should be setting an example. I've also heard that there's already been a few issues with that club, like people running out of air at 30m, O2 being used more than once last year, ... :confused4:

I find it hard to let the more experienced divers set such a bad example for the newbies. Time to find other divers, or manage to land a big mentality change, I somehow think the 2nd option is a bit unlikely to happen, so off with the 1st one.

I THINK YOU HAVE MADE GOOD DECISIONS. Better being safe than dead. I think it is time to find a new dive club . I personally would not dive with a group that had that many close calls or maybe find one or two good dive buddies in the group that you feel comfortable diving with and share your diving philosophy . and go diving with them not the group . Dive safe

 

[AdivingBel]

Go with your gut. Respect others to do the same. It's a big ocean. Dive safe.

 

[MB NZ]

As others have said, risk assessment is personal. There is no need to please anyone else. There is certainly a cultural/geographical aspect to this.

When I worked as a dive guide in the Mediterranean.We did dives well outside of recreational limits, both in terms of depth and wreck penetration on single 12 L cylinder. I didn't think much of it at the time.

When I moved back to the UK, there was a much stronger culture of a technical diving, mixed gases and twinsets etc and people were generally horrified about dives that I previously thought acceptable on a single cylinder of air!

Now older and a little wiser, I wouldn't do those dives again unless suitably equipped. Guess I got lucky and nothing went wrong. Would I "let" other people do those dives? Yes, absolutely, it's their call.

 

[Nasser]

Better safe than sorry. If there are conditions or types of dives you feel uncomfortable with or unqualified to do (even if you're certified for them) then don't do the dive. It's your call - never allow others to pressure you - even indirectly.

 

[Rich Keller]

There is no such thing as "too cautious" in diving. Forget what anyone else may think and do what you feel is right. Ultimately you are the only one responsible for your own safety.