AMF VOIT Swimaster Titan II MR12

[ew1usnr]

Thanks for the photo of the first stages. My brothers MR-12 first stage is the same as the one on the left (with the rounded edges). Here is a picture of my Titan II (attached). The first stage looks completely different (a lot cooler, in my opinion), and also has a built-in J-valve, but I think that the internal mechanics are the same as the MR-12 first stage. The Titan II shares the same first stage with the Voit Trieste double hose regulator. I had both mu Titan II and Trieste overhauled. I believe that they both had their HP seats with US Diver Conshelf seats. I was told that the original Voit seats were rubber and the new Conshelf seats are teflon. The newer seats are more durable and can handle higher pressures. I dive with both my Titan II and Trieste. They are both terriffic regulators.

 

[quimby]

1985, hmmm I have regulators that were old enough to drink in 1985, anyway if you bought it from someone you know what kind of repair history did it have? Have you tried it on a tank or in a pool etc. Most of the keys diving is one step above snorkeling so my thoughts are along those lines.. Greg you mentioned the design aspects for HP seats, well understood as the std of the day was 2475, but we used them to 3K and no ill effects. As a matter of fact USD RoyalAquamaster came out and had a hell of a problem with not handling HP over 2000#. So having bought a case I began to play and similarities were amazing so I now had Royal Aquamasters that were good to 3K and were loverly. One of the owners of Parkway started pushing my mod and I became the rework artist for at least 40 or 50 before USD came up with essentially the same answer.
the attachment is a little better view of the original version vs the 2 , next time I have a chance I'll weigh the bodies just for kicks.
ew1usnr, havent seen one with a J in years, and your right you could remove or add the J as desired and as you said change it over to double hose just to have one size to fit all occasions. I did have a customer do that regularly for ice diving double hose winter and single spring and summer. The voit double hose and the sportsways were the only I can remember with a HP port for a guage, but the sportsways used a tilt valve for its second stage. As far as the seats as I said above they werent that bad, I blew out one a couple of years ago that was a original (not rubber but a clear poly, or teflon type. USD may have had a rubber in the RA but not sure). Not bad for 30yrs and probable gazzillion tanks of air(tecnical term) and mostly ++fills.
As Greg mentioned before, a couple of weeks ago I picked up a half doz new HP seats and Silicone dia and am going through my lot and it does make a difference

 

[Greg Barlow]

The Trieste double hose was also the first true Voit manufactured model. Voit was producing the rubber items for US Divers for many years. In turn, US Divers allowed Voit to market double hose regs under the Voit label. There were a few minute differences, but nothing drastic.

There were even many single hose models in the early 60's that followed this pattern.

Quimby, you wouldn't happen to know where I can find a Little Gem tilt valve model in excellent shape, would you? I needed to fabricate a tilt valve for mine due to not being able to find a replacement piece. I needed it to be functional for the magazine testing. I would love to find one that is completely original.

Thanks, and have a happy Thanksgiving.

Greg

 

[ew1usnr]

Greg Barlow once bubbled...
The Trieste double hose was also the first true Voit manufactured model.

Don't forget the Voit 50-Fathom! It was a single stage two hose regulator that was a unique Voit design. The factory configuration had the main air jet directed against the side of the case. I
removed the demand valve positioning pin and aimed the main air nozzle directly down the intake hose. I did a test dive with the modified regulator this past Sunday. Geez, what a difference! It really provided a venturi assist. With each breath I could hear a "whoosh" of air flowing down the hose. When I rolled to my side the inhalation was absolutely effortless. This is a really nice breathing regulator now. One guy said his theory was that Voit mis-aimed the air jet deliberately as a marketing decision. Voit was also selling a more expensive two stage model and did not want the lesser priced single stage regulator to breathe better.

In the attached photo, note how the main air jet has been rotated 90-degrees and is now aimed directly down the hose intake.

 

[Greg Barlow]

I was under the impression that US Divers manufactured the housing and valve assembly. Dan Barringer of vintagescubasupply.com had told me that some years back. I could be wrong, but the connection between the two companies was very mingled.

I had a new in the box Trieste that I sold to a fellow collector a few years back. That is one that I shouldn't have let go....

Greg Barlow

 

[ew1usnr]

Greg Barlow once bubbled...
I was under the impression that US Divers manufactured the housing and valve assembly.

Hello, Greg. My reference is the 1960 edition of Fred Roberts "Basic Scuba".

"VRC-2 50 Fathom Regulator - Single Stage
The 50 Fathom regulator is the exception in the Voit line of diving regulators. It is distinct from the other units and manufactured solely for Voit."

The Voit VR-1 Sportsman Regulator (Discontinued 1959 in favor of the 50-Fathom) was the same as a US Divers DW Stream Air. The Voit Polaris 50 'V22' that replaced the 50-Fathom and was the same as a US Divers Mistral.

I love my 50-Fathom (see attached).

 

[Greg Barlow]

Interesting...I wonder if the phrase "solely for Voit" means that it was still built by US Divers but merely with some different internals. One very smart move by Voit was to use a ring clamp rather than the small individual clamps used on US Divers regs. Those always were a pain and would often damage the chrome plating.

Yours is a real beauty. A good friend just recently swapped some gear for a blue cased 50 Fathom. In my opinion, the blue painted versions were the sharpest double hose ever. They had such a distinctive look with the case and gray hoses.

Are your hoses the reproductions? They look great.

Greg

 

[ew1usnr]

Hello, Greg.
According to this web site: www.auas-nogi.org/gagnan.htm
the 50-Fathom was an Emile Gagnan design.
I agree with you on all points. I would rather have a Voit than a US Divers simply because Voit used clamp rings. The blue 50-Fathoms were beautiful. The chrome version is more rare because it was only made in its final year of 1962. I bought mine in an Orlando pawn shop twelve years ago. It had a $5 price tag on it. I asked the owner if he would take $3.50, .... and he said "Yes"!!! The original hoses had turned brown and crumbly. The mouthpiece is original and looks great. These are new hoses that I bought from Dan Barringer. They really make this regulator stand out. I had to put a black rubber USD diaphragm in it. The original Voit diaphragm is also made of gray rubber and it has turned as stiff as a board.

Attached is a picture of my Trieste (with my Titan II in the background). I added a Poseidon Jetstream as an octopus. The Trieste was probably the most advanced design double hose ever made (compact balanced two-stage with HP and LP ports). It is my best breathing double hose, smooth and easy, and will blow a huge amount of air.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

The question came up on this thread about why use an old Titan regulator when you can get a new one. Well, the old are just as good as the new, probided they have been kept in good working order. I did a little research from my archieves, and found the spec sheets for the MR-12 (same internally as the Titan II), the Calypso IV, the Scubapro A.I.R. I, and compared them with the new catelog from USD for the Legend LX. The results are interesting when you convert them to the same units (1 millibar = 0.401 inches of water):

USD Calypso IV, 1972, inhalation breaking pressure 5 centimeters or 1.9 inches of water; rises slightly to 200 feet of water, but not over 6 centimeters of water.

MR-12 (date unknown, but from the 1970s), breaking pressure, 5 centimeters of water, or 1.5 inches of water, rises slightly but not over 5 centimeters of water.

A.I.R. I (early 1980s), breaking pressure about .8 inches of water, decreases dramatically with depth.

Legend LX (2003), breaks at 5 millibars, or 2 inches of water, and goes down dramatically in inhalation cycel at 165 feet depth, ore 50 meters depth in sea water.

Titan and Titan Placea, breaks the same as the Legend but goes down then up to almost 4 inches (10 millibars) in the inhalation cycle.

I've measured double hose regulators at less than an inch of water breaking pressure (Mistral, Aquamaster, Snark III, Jet Air, Voit 50 fathom, etc.). Most single hose regulators of today have the some restriction that single hose regulators of the 1970s or 1980s had, in that their exhausts are not integral to their LP diaphrapm. That means they must break at greater than the greatest distance between the exhaust opening and the center of the diaphragm, or they will leak air.

In short, a well-working Titan II from AMF Voit will work just as well as todays regs, except that it's made of metal and not plastic. It will be heavier, but the breathing characteristics should be comparable.

If you want to measure the breaking resistance in inches or centimeters of water, it is very easy and inexpensive to build a water manomener. Simply take some 5 feet of tubing, make a "U" shape on a board, place a scale on it. Using a staple gun, staple the "U" to wood with the scale between. Half-way on the scale, place a zero, then mark it off at inch or centimeter intervals. You want about a foot of full "U", and the extra goes into your mouth. Fill the "U" half full of water. Place the tubing in your mouth, away from you tongue, and then place the regulator into your mouth, and inhale. The difference in the water column is the breaking pressure in inches (or centimeters) of water.

Good luck,

SeaRat

PS--I'm the guy who felt the AMF people messed up the Voit 50 Fathom regulator purposely.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

ew1usnr,

Thanks for that link. That's very interesting information on Gagnan's contributions. I had no idea he was that active in scuba design.

By the way, I think the Titan II still has some remnants of the Trieste II inside it. It is the exact same first stage, and I believe it contains the LP seat and spring inside a blank to keep it closed and unused. I believe I saw that in a drawing someplace, but cannot locate it right now.

SeaRat